Gilly the WaterRats are masons.......they even say so themselves

Gilly wrote:
True,
The Water Rats are a registered charity.
Established: "to assist members of the theatrical profession, or their dependents, who are in need".

I was just curious if a link could be established to either organisation it was claimed he was a member of.

dawnbreak wrote:
I made a mix up with the names of 2 prisons but that I admitted and has nothing to do with your accusation.

I never questioned whether JS was a nonce so you will have to post that quote or retract it.

I highlighted the women only because women involved in covering for that monster because women barred from the sexist institution of the FreeMoasons. This was to point out that people that covered up for that evil man could not jsut be Freemasons.

I never intimated ONCE that JS was anything else but a paedo.

EVER.

Nothing about this is related to whatever you THINk I did a month ago.

I have no affection or loyalty to Freemasons, but I believe that even somebidy that you deeply disagree with should not be made a scapegoat.

Above all because it lets other people who are involvedget away with atrocities and condems those that were not to false accusation (i.e. everyday Masons).

I wish you could see just how much your posts have hampered the discussion about these crimes on this thread, but I guess this topic in your mind is all about you and your grudge, whatever that is.

When you figure out WTF I did in Sept was, let me know.

I have the confidence to stand by my posts.

And I won't be making any excuses for Ranson when she turned a blind eye to that despicable man.

dawnbreak wrote:
Where do they say that? They're a completely separate entity, with no links to Freemasonry. Prove me wrong, and I'll grovel for forgiveness. I think you're just mistaken.

dawnbreak wrote:
"Freemasonry is not the only fraternal organisation. The oldest of these were formed in the 1700s. The range of organisations is very wide – from Old Friends to Druids, Oddfellows to Knights of the Phoenix, Buffaloes and Freemasons."

"Other societies
We hold a wide range of material from clubs and societies – some frivolous such as the Ye Ancient Order of Frothblowers which was established in England in the 1920s as a drinking club with charitable aims and others well known such as the Grand Order of Water Rats, formed by showbusiness personalities in 1889 and which continues to exist as a well known charitable organisation."

Source: > https://www.freemasonry.london.museum/showcase/other-societies/

mickey Micky is not a pedo or a pedo defender.....


that good enough for you?

So when do me and DG get the apology from you?

dawnbreak wrote:
Tell me what you are referring to and you have it.

I may have already done it.

But, unless I am mistaken, it has nothing to do with this thread and certainly did not warrant such a vile accusation.

OTOH, retraction (not apology) accepted.

true i'm deariling it

@ feather i gave you 'proof- Jimmy Saville was a mason....... do you have proof he wasn;t?

The man has sexually abused numerous people



?

dawnbreak wrote:
Sorry I missed that apparently Could you quote it for me please, I'm old, slow and a bit daft.

Nope I have no 'proof' he wasn't, I just can't find any evidence he was.

I don't believe anyone has disputed that, especially as more evidence appears to emerge daily as the investigation continues.

Here's the thing though:

I cannot support Free Masonry if I wish to remain a member of the Catholic Church.

The RCC has had the paedo monsters among them. Well proven and prosecuted.

That NEVER meant that all Catholics are paedos or paedo apologists.

And so, despite my prejudice against this secrete society, I will not see yet another group of people, depite how misguided I think they are, take the wrap for what is obviously something evidently more widespread than them.

Do I think that Masons are wrong?

YES.

Both theologically and politically: they are almost always for the Staus Quo and that SQ is something that I see as inherently corrupt and nepotism based.

I am no friend to masons.

But the individual member is not somehow part of what that monster JS was up to.

And I think that we should be looking further.

Paedos infiltrate and sociopaths pretend and mirror us.

Perhaps we are too frightened to face the bleak reality that it is that the psychopaths that set their cat amongst us pidgeons and their doves.

The issue of Free Masonry is a seperate one.

It was only one of the pies JS had his dirty fingers in.

Don't let the bastards sell some low ranking masons down the line. Like some shitty chess move.

THINK ffs

no I can't quote it or provide you with in internet links that say 'yes Jimmy Saville was a mason'

in My honest opinion he was and I'm a bit about people here defeding him and saying he was not a mason

Mickey I'm gong to say this in nice way but are you drunk? becaus you are rambling an making no sense?

No I am just posting and then editing.

Sorry.

I can see I am going to have to be careful within seconds of clicking send.

I will return the favour from now on.

dawnbreak wrote: There's my problem in a nutshell Dawn.
You express an opinion that you believe he was a mason and that they protected him but it appears without evidence, just that, an opinion.

All I'm asking is what informs your opinion.

No one is even remotely defending Saville or his actions.
If it transpired that he was a mason, and even more importantly, that they provided cover for and enabled him in anyway I would be joining you in condemning them but all there is at present is an unsubstantiated opinion.

I need more than that before I go attacking people is all.

dawnbreak wrote:
Then let me try again to explain.

Saville is guilty of what, I think most of us will agree, is one of the most horrifying crimes possible. That of abusing children (secondary to that, was a lot of other, connected unsavoury stuff). Nobody has shown any inclination to defend him.

You've said it's all about Masonry. That accusation taints a lot of innocent people within Masonry. Others, including myself have refuted that, and Feather raised the interesting question of whether the git was even in the Masons.

You've just told Feather that you've given proof he was - which, as you're now confirming, you haven't at all.

You also claimed he was in the Grand Order of Water Rats, which you insisted was a part of the Masons.

Feather asked for a credible link showing he was in that organisation. That's not been provided.

I've advised you the Rats are nothing to do with the Masons, and Feather has posted a credible link showing that to be accurate.

So, you see, nobody has at any point defended Saville, but a lot of debate has taken place about the other assertions you made.

Is that clearer?

dawnbreak wrote:
In my opinion, Saville was involved at some level in freemasonry. Not THIS much smoke without fire right?

The fact that no-one can provide a definite credible link proving so should surprise no-one in my opinion. Lets face it...we are talking about a 'secret' organisation/club here....what do people expect as evidence...youtube links..?

diamondgeezer wrote:
If 'Not so much smoke without fire' was a reliable measure of anyone's guilt, a lot of us would have been burned at the stake for stuff we're not guilty of, imo.

It''s the contents of the meetings that are secret - being a member is not a secret. There are the words, "Masonic Hall" written on the outside of Masonic halls, and the entrances are clearly visible. It's not the cloak & dagger set up people are making out. When I was looking for other things earlier in connection with this debate, there appeared to be plenty of celebs who have made no secret of their membership. They're not required to.

*Edit* Just for the record, I know my 1st sentence here is nonsensical.

I was trying to substitute the word 'acceptable' where I'd put 'reliable', and there was also another point I'd wanted to raise, but my screen was freezing up then lurching about, and my mouse was doing River Dance, so I just gave up and went to bed.

diamondgeezer wrote:
Something a bit more substantial than gut feelings tbh...
I notice it happening with this earth changes lark too

Well perhaps DG and Dawn would be happier with this crap.

truth-zone.co.uk/forum/news-and-current-...rael-connection.html

Yes, I SAID it

And while you squeal, just remember that I have been accused of heinous shit on this thread which was later admitted to be the result of a grudge which going back weeks.