EU is not a bogeyman. It is a bunch of power-hungry UNELECTED officials. Corruption, as recently reported, runs into the tens of billions.

The sooner the EU edifice comes crashing down the better. Then we can get back to being individual nations in a free trade area - which should be a lot larger than Europe.

We are not a true republic, until that happens we're not a nation, nor do I want any part of it tbh.
I'd rather have a planet of people with no nations and no govt.

andyh wrote:
Oh so would I.

But human nature seems to include a tribal element and until we can change human nature (microchipping?) we're stuck with that.

Its human nurture we need to change imho human nature is fine

I don't buy into the idea that we are all beings of light and love - as, no doubt, the Mr Angry (DI) sees himself!

We need about a million more years of evolution for that!

jhado wrote:
Not a simpleton POV at all!

The EU is a frying pan and the Atlantic "special relationship" as the fire.

I'd rather have neither but the current Thatcherite/Reagan vision of zero hours, uber rich and unter poor is not for me.

It's a choice and some Brits have gone for the "everyone is selfish" mindset.

I don't believe it.

Verlander wrote:


I don't either, I just believe we do what we are programmed to do.

I don't either but I know I prefer light to darkness in the morning and I know I prefer love when the sun sets.

It depends what we are taught to prefer

That's the whole nature and nurture thing TBH

After all, the objection to a resource based economy is often that people are just greedy

The counter is that greed is often taught.

I teach and see that greed seems intrinsic but having also taught their parents it seems taught

But then that asks: who were they taught from?

A cycle just like dysfunctions operate which leads one to believe that such things are passed on but of course the originator of the dysfunction is now a spaghetti monster of first originator.

And on we go...


The reality is in evidence in yourself and S.

You ultimately choose but those choices are compromised.

And yet, it is possible.

It is not an either /or analysis.

And so we look to reason and compassion
and I could post further but fkt

We have a while yet to understand each other

People can be manipulated to bring out the best or worst in them.

All the major wars have shown you can get people to kill each other with a mixture of propaganda and physical training.

By also using politics,laws and economics to impact in a negative way on every day lifestyles (ie make life harder with less privileges) people can be manipulated more to bring out the worst in them.

Obviously there would never be a point where we all hold hands in a circle singing Kumbaya if you brought out the best in people but when people are more contented and knowledgeable they are less likely to want mistreat others.

Nurture is obviously 99% of what we are. Take a kid born in Arabia and have that same kid grow up with innuit parents and the kid will never be an Islamic jihadist
The kid may also never see tv..which is the very devil imho

It's totally obvious that there is a profound link between economic status and behaviour. Any criminologist will tell you this. Obviously when you get beyond mere social inequality and get down to real poverty then it's going to have a massive effect, this is the fundamental reason why you see the world in such chaos.

There's also criminal behaviour of a very different kind right at the top of the ladder too which makes the situation all the more interesting. Imho the people at the top are just as much prisoners to the system as we are.
What we all lack is the ability to aspire to our true potential

andyh wrote: It's almost necessary to commit crime to get to the top. Certainly to stay there. It just doesn't get called crime once you get there!

Exactly yep, because that is a taught cultural perception

wake_up_bomb wrote:
Plenty of criminal activity amongst the super-rich too!