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Julian Assange: "The ignition key has been turned totalitarianism"
Posted on December 1, 2012
assange, founder of WikiLeaks, Julian Assange, has given an interview to Russia Today from the Embassy of Ecuador in London, which has taken refuge since last June 19. Among other issues, the reporter talks about controlling the network and virtual wars.
RT: You have written this book, 'Cypherpunks. Freedom and the Future of the Internet ', based on the programs you have done for RT. In it you say that Internet enslaves us. But I do not quite understand what you mean, because the Internet is one thing, a soulless tool. So, who are the people who enslave?
Assange: The people who control the interception of communications on the Internet and, to some extent, control servers physically large information and international fiber optic lines. We all think of the Internet as a "Platonic realm" where we can express our ideas and communicate, and that's up there in the air. In fact, the Internet is on servers that are in New York, Nairobi and Beijing comes through fiber optic cables or satellite communications. So who physically control these media also exert control over the ideas and communications. And those who are listening on these channels, can intercept communications of entire countries. And this is truly novel and interesting for modern states: intercept communications of entire nations.
RT: But this sounds like something futuristic, and you said that the future is already here.
Assange: Yeah I mean that the National Security Agency U.S. doing it for about 30, 20 years, but now it spread to medium nations. Gaddafi's Libya used the system 'EAGLE', produced by the French company AMESYS, introduced there in 2009. Promoted in internal documents as the national interception. For what has happened over the last 10 years is that costs for interception individuals have declined to the point that it is cheaper to spy on all individuals who choose to spy in particular.
RT: And what is the alternative, the utopian alternative you have done?
Assange: The utopian alternative is to try and win independence for the Internet. Declare independence for the rest of the world. And this is quite important. If you think that human civilization is, what makes us human and civilized is shared knowledge about how the world works, how we treat each other, how we treat the environment, which institutions are corrupt and which ones are good, and what is the least do silly things. And this intellectual knowledge is something we put on the Internet. So if we can try and separate the crude nature of the states and their allies, hence I think we can have hope for the global civilization. If on the other hand the security gods, those who control the weapons, are able to take control over our intellectual lives, control over all the means by which we communicate, then clearly you can see what the consequences will be terrible. If in a country, will occur in all countries at once. In fact, it is happening in all nations if we talk of espionage. Because every nation around his people with the Internet infrastructure.
RT: And how we, as a kind of naive users, so to speak, obviously I exclude you, how do we work with these collectors of private information? Everyone has a Facebook account, everyone has a phone that can be spied.
Assange: People think "well yes, you can use Facebook and that if the FBI makes a request is made to the information." And all are now much better informed on the subject by Petraeus. But this is not the problem. The problem is that whenever I do almost everything, what everyone does, is being recorded continuously, every web search. Do you know what I was thinking a year ago, three months ago or two days ago? You do not know, but Google does know, he recalls. The National Security Agency intercept any request to leave the U.S. border. He knows. So just to communicate with friends, updating the delatamos Facebook profile to friends. And friends do not betray their friends. The Stasi had a 10% penetration in East German society, one in 10 people over his life had been informants. Now in countries where Internet penetration level is the highest, as in Iceland, over 80% of the population is on Facebook informing on his friends. This information does not stay in Iceland, returning to the U.S., where the intelligence services will have access and will access this information, and which will be delivered to U.S. intelligence friends. Hundreds of national security letters each day, they are released by the U.S. Government
RT: So, we run the risk of entering a stage where there are only two groups of people: a minority that is safe informed about the work on the Internet and the things you describe, and others that connect to entertain?
Assange: We have that position where, as we know, knowledge is power. And there is a massive transfer as a result of billions of daily interceptions come from around the world, ordinary people, to the data servers of state intelligence agencies of large countries and their allies: the corporations that have helped to build that infrastructure.
Those groups are already powerful, so we can build that infrastructure to intercept everyone. So powerful are concentrating power in the groups of people that are becoming smaller, which is not necessarily bad, but it is extremely dangerous if there is corruption in power. Because absolute power corrupts and becomes corrupt when it can affect a lot of people very quickly. Bill Binney, the informant of the National Security Agency, which has been the lead investigator in the Division of Signal Spy Agency National Security, describes it as the ignition key of totalitarianism, and says that all infrastructure has been created for the absolute totalitarianism. It's just a matter of turning the key. And really, the key has been turned a bit and now is affecting many people who became the target of attacks by U.S. drones: organizations like WikiLeaks, national security reporters have their sources under investigation. It is partially rotated and the question is whether we will all return.
RT: But this was actually built by corporations, and unconsciously with the contribution of the people, in order to publish it to make money? Or has been built deliberately by governments for the sole purpose of monitoring?
Assange: They are both. The surveillance system, the volume of the surveillance infrastructure, has hundreds of companies involved in this business. And they have secret conferences, and brochures that give intelligence agencies, which we have obtained and published this year with Privacy International and the Bureau of Investigative Journalism. Also 'The Wall Street Journal has done some work on this topic.
They are building devices that advertise to intercept entire nations, to install data those intercepted permanently interceptions strategic because it is cheaper. So, is an amalgam composed of corporations and government.
That's one of the problems, one of the reasons why this is inexplicable is that crosses borders. The companies not only sell to their home country, they sell to companies from other nations. There are shareholders who are in the Virgin Islands, and the company may be registered as British, but is currently undergoing several investigations in Sweden, etc..
And then you also have to Google and Facebook, which began predominantly as a public service, but have also developed service projects for U.S. intelligence
And people are constantly bringing their thoughts to Google and everything they want to investigate, everything is sent via email or Facebook, through their social relationships. It is a source of unimaginable intelligence data. Facebook is something you never imagined, even in the worst spies nations, given the wealth and sophistication in the expression of their relationships.
RT: And knowing people contribute.
Assange: People do not really know. When Facebook says "share this with your friends", says exactly that, says no shares this with state agencies, says not share this with friends and state agencies.
RT: Who has the power to order these affairs stop talking?
Assange: Well, when there is political will, everything is possible, so if we have the political will then these agencies can be dismantled and can be controlled by legislation with teeth and increased vigilance. In some regions, such as Latin America, maybe that's a possibility. There is a democratic trend, of which Ecuador is one that could do that. However, in general I think that the problem is very serious. Right now we are at a time when the situation may lean to one side or another. To some extent, of what we can be sure, if we strive towards that goal, is that some of us are protected.
It may be only an elite with access to technology, but later we hope to include people who can create tools and information to others and they can use it to protect themselves. It is not necessary that all of society is protected, it is necessary to protect critical components responsible society that prevent information disappears completely, including in corruption investigators, journalists, activists and political parties. These should be protected, otherwise all is lost.
RT: Is there any way that I can protect myself without being a computer expert?
Assange: Yes, a little, but the first thing you should know is how much information you are exposing. The first thing to do to protect yourself is to say, "Well, I will discuss this matter in person and not on the Facebook chat" or "will debate about this type of chat using a coded and not Facebook chat".
You can go to the page and download a software torproject.org encrypted anonymous. It is a little slower than normal, but to chat on the Internet is because there was too much information at once download.
There are ways to do this, but what is necessary, however, for those who know better this world, is that there is sufficient market demand. It is the same as the use of soap and hand washing. Before knowing about the germ theory of disease, before understanding that was invisible bacteria out there trying to cause harm, so even in the existence of invisible violence large states seeking to cause damage to society, no one bothered hand washing.
The first was the discovery process, the second education, third, a market demand that arises as a result of education, which means that experts can begin making soap for people to buy it and use it. It is precisely at this point where we are now: we need to promote education among the people so that there is a market demand and, thereby, encourage people to use encryption technology and easy to use, able to protect States a considerable number of people.
If we can not protect people, to democratic institutions and basic civil-and I mean to the West but to all societies, they will crumble. It will crumble and simultaneously. This scenario would be extremely dangerous. The fact that the world is broken into pieces and do it at the same time is not something that happens often. Normally there are countries that are saved.
RT: We just celebrated the second anniversary of the so called 'Cablegate', and since then the war against whistleblowers and oversight of the state seems to have hardened. Do you think that something as big as the 'Cablegate' could happen again and that would have a similar impact?
Assange: Yes, and I hope that next year.
RT: When the next year?
Assange: I will not go into details, but hopefully sooner rather than later.
RT: Do you think that when the impact WikiLeaks will do the same as before?
Assange: The 'Cablegate' was extraordinary. Was released in a period of 12 months and was most significant filtration. Our previous filtration, on the Iraq war, also had 400,000 documents, which showed precisely how more than 100,000 people were killed. That was also very significant. Of course, nobody has done anything as important since, but I hope this continues. Not to see the successes of WikiLeaks simply as a demonstration of our organization manhood or virility of the Internet community activists. They are also the result of the accumulation of information by national security agencies. The reason why such information is leaked, the reason leaked at the same time because thus they had accumulated. Why had accumulated so much? Well, for additional power through knowledge. They wanted their own inner knowledge was easily accessible for people, it was easy to search and find, in order to extract the most power possible from that. WikiLeaks seeks to correct the imbalance of power by extracting what saved these institutions so powerful and give it to people in general, so we can understand how the world and stop the growing control by these institutions. But it is a result of the amount of knowledge they have accumulated powerful institutions.
RT: Obviously you have written this book while he's been here at the embassy (in Ecuador). Does being locked constantly affects your ability to work?
Assange: It is affecting my ability to meet with other people in different countries and proselytize and things of that sort. But we must see events in perspective. There are others who have been in prison, also in recent years. I know that her condition is much more serious than mine and, fortunately, I am able to give interviews, etc. So at least I have a voice yet. Prisoners rarely voice. Why is that? Well, because the prison system does not allow them to complain about their conditions.
RT: And what will do, Julian? You said that you will not go to the Ecuadorian embassy until the U.S. waives any charges and investigation against him. Will you stay here forever?
Assange: Well, I hope there is enough political pressure and that the U.S. Government believes is destroying all remaining goodwill towards him as a result of the prosecution and investigation of WikiLeaks and its partners. I think you really have to give this research. As you know, in the last six months in particular can see a kind of arrow in history, and the U.S. Department of Justice and Eric Holder, they will end up on the wrong side of history. I do not know if you want that in your blog.
RT: Recently, reports have appeared in the media about a possible lung disease, but you have published a statement arguing that that is not true. But he has not shown that potentially could happen if you had a health problem? Do you think you would be able to get treatment?
Assange: you know, my personal condition is not very interesting. Obviously, it is in the embassy is difficult. And in the longer term, I suppose, could be very difficult. But ... I've had worse problems.
RT: Julian Assange, thank you very much.
