G'day.

Maybe this thread ...

The David Icke Timeline - A Work In Progress
www.infinite-love-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4252

... will be helpful in correlating a lot of information regarding DI and his activities over the past 20 odd years.

A large populace held in check by a small but powerful force is quite a common situation in our universe. And we know the major conditions wherein this large populace may turn upon its keepers --

One: When they find a leader. This is the most volatile threat to the powerful; they must retain control of leaders.

Two: When the populace recognizes its chains. Keep the populace blind and unquestioning.

Three: When the populace perceives a hope of escape from bondage. They must never even believe that escape is possible!

Bene Gesserit Codice

Children of Dune
Frank Herbert

Personally, I think, considering all of the information that I have available, DI is more than likely a set up, a honey pot, a gate keeper. The above link provides loads of circumstantial evidence for this, from his outrageous claims of channeling St Germain, Jesus and his disciples, Magnu, among others, through the Rockefeller connected IHC non-profit charity organisation that DI set up his own charity through, to DI promoting his son Gareth Icke all the while having his record contract ultimately owned by GE, one of the worlds largest weapon manufacturers. Add to this a BBC documentary, David Icke - Was He Right?, which DID NOT point out the many false claims of cataclysm's that DI had made throughout the years. So much for not getting any MSM positive publicity eh (the reappearance on the Wogan show was another).

Anyway, each of us has our own decision to make in relationship to DI ... however, I will add another quote from the Dune series to this post and ask a simple question, 'Does your experience of the DI f have religious overtones, or a cult-like appearance, in the way it is set up and administered ?'

Religion always leads to rhetorical despotism. This leads to self-fulfilling prophecy and justifications for all manner of obscenities. It shields evil behind walls of self-righteousness which are proof against all arguments against the evil. It feeds on deliberately twisted meanings to discredit opposition. It leads directly to hypocrisy which is always betrayed by the gap between actions and explanations. They never agree. Ultimately, it rules by guilt because hypocrisy brings on the witch hunt and the demand for scapegoats.

Leto II God Emporer

God Emperor of Dune
Frank Herbert

With respect, I read that other forum a few times and I'm not sure how it started out, but it turned into some of the most nasty bitterness that one could imagine. That's probably why it died on its arse.

Regarding the above, I think you will find the key words are in bold: "Personally, I think, considering all of the information that I have available, DI is more than likely a set up, a honey pot, a gate keeper. The above link provides loads of circumstantial evidence for this".

merlincove
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean
Dusan,

You should read my replies. I've already said i've installed this module, and i've also said that i've wanted to check out whether Gilly did send these pm's. It's been installed, it's been used, but it hasn't been used since, and it's never going to be a permanent feature.

As you are so technically savvy, surely you realise that ALL PM's are readable via MYSQL?

And IF i ever decided to have this feature as a permanent feature on the site, that would be MY decision to make. If i feel anybody is abusing the system, i have every right to use my options available to me to find them out.

As it stands, this feature isn't a permanent one on the site, and will never be used.

You've been removed as moderator.

(I'm forwarding this response onto Dusan)
i think it's time we all breathed a little.



Having the ability to read private messages and actually reading them are two very different principles. I think we were all aware that the ability was there, as many savvy members i am sure are aware - but again, utilising the ability is the key here. Having a gun and using a gun are two wholy different concepts.

Surely having the feature rallies against what David stands for? Using the feature most definately does.

Sean you said that we stand for everything David stands for, and on the David Icke forum I feel that such is a worthy stance, and a rightfull one. It should be no other way.

However I do not feel that David would sanction such measures. And indeed would be as appauled as are we all.

The PDF files show a correlation between data that suggest very strongly that privacy has been breeched toward an end - are you saying the data correlation is wrong, Sean?

It is time for us to unite in strength, Sean not divide through ego, I hope sincerely that we are able to do the former in order to grow.

Tsume is obviously finding this hard, as I am sure are well all, this is not easy for anyone, discovering something that rocks us never is, and it is good that you have taken that on board Sean, it shows your spirit and your spirit is good.
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31-12-2009, 06:39 AM
#23
sean
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Lee, the fact is that this "exposure" by Dusan has been done in order to stir trouble and create bad feeling.

To suggest this feature has been there for a long time is totally wrong. I'm sure he's been watching every day for something like this to occur, and since now it has, he's decided to post his findings in the most dramatic way possible.

Not once did he ask me about it.

The fact remains that Gilly was found to be breaking the moderation guidelines, and i thought this to be a good tool to use in verifying that. It's absolutely my job to do so on here, and i stand by it.

I've had the discussion with another member of the team as to whether we should keep it as a permanent feature, and it was decided that no we shouldn't.

What dusan has done here, is use a hack/exploit in the forum to spy on me doing my job as webmaster. He has completely undermined what i'm doing here, and has insulted my integrity to the point where he is no longer welcome back on the team.

I find this behavior despicable, and i can only imagine that there have been whispering campaigns going on in the background.

Like i said earlier, if anybody else thinks what Dusan has done today is in any way appropriate they can leave. There are far better ways of dealing with things like that, than accusing people of a whole load of rubbish.
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31-12-2009, 06:42 AM
#24
tusme
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Listen Sean, mate...for the sake of Truth and for what David Icke stand's for, can we call back Alison, Gilly, Dusan and everyone else, so we can have a "clear the air" talks and get on with doing what we're here to do...PLEASE!?

Again, imho, we're all to blame for allowing this situation to get this far, including me...I wish now, I had pushed you to have that "clear the air" chat, many others were requesting a few weeks/months ago...absolutely certain we'd not have been where we are now...a bloody shame, it is...!!

Anyway, Sean...please, I urge that you, in the strongest possible terms, to re-consider you decision and re-call those lovely people...please!?

I'm more than happy to "chair" a "clear the air" debate/discussion/talk..otherwise, why not simply get David to help sort this situation out...know it's abit OTT to do so but, I can honestly see the potential perils ahead...know what I mean?

Cheers
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31-12-2009, 07:02 AM
#25
merlincove
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i hope i don't have to go




i have absolutely no wish to further the division in this team or see the dissemination of a brilliant and workable team-unit any further, but in Gilly thread you yourself said that that you chose to speak to some FA’s and not others.

Yes I agree that you will run the site as you see fit, in David’s stead, as has been accepted - running the site with select advisors instead of consensus has lead us here to this place

But i stand by the things i have said, my worst fear is now being realised, that a split is occurring and i hope we can survive it as a team, and be stronger and more open because of it.

i have enjoyed being a part of the team and i hope we can continue, it has been an honour to work alongside a great group of people.

However we need truth and unity as a backbone, our very moralistic nature of the site depends on that sole premise.

In harmony we are a great team, but in discord we are surely lost to the negativity we attempt to deal with. There have been a lot of views expressed in this thread, and it is good, it allows us to learn and grown and further our understanding.

Like David has said, and like tsume has recalled, ‘Life's greatest lesson are often disguised as our worse nightmares.’
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31-12-2009, 07:06 AM
#26
sean
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Hi guys,

It's new years eve. I suggest (for those in the UK at least) that we enjoy ourselves tonight. I won't be on, so won't be able to respond to this for the time being.

Let's put aside our differences for now, and just enjoy seeing the new year in. I'll be back on and can talk further when emotions have died down a bit.

Happy new year all!
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31-12-2009, 07:15 AM
#27
tusme
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean
Hi guys,

It's new years eve. I suggest (for those in the UK at least) that we enjoy ourselves tonight. I won't be on, so won't be able to respond to this for the time being.

Let's put aside our differences for now, and just enjoy seeing the new year in. I'll be back on and can talk further when emotions have died down a bit.

I can't hide the fact that i'm both upset and angry at the way this has been dealt with. But there you go.

Happy new year all!
You're a good man Sean...!!

Truth, Love and Peace & a Happy New Year to you, mate, I know you will make the RIGHT decision...!!

Cheers

Ps, ...finally, I can now go and meditate, thankyou...love you all...!!
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31-12-2009, 10:02 AM
#28
pinkfreud
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sorry to say this, but please- fuck the 'love-shmove' for now. this needs to be discussed because it is a serious matter, and now dusan has been kicked as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sean
You've been removed as moderator.

lol. gimme a break sean.

is this what you do all the time? kick people out just because they debate all your points and stand up to you?

no one has raised the bloody point: if the pm.php module was, like you keep insisting, brought in to keep track of spammers only, why were you caught snooping around gilly's inbox on the said date, checking out a pm whose ID has been specified in the pdf?

that is the question that needs answering. why were you in gilly's inbox? she is not a spammer is she? let's pretend we are living in utopia and take for granted that you only use the function to keep a check on spammers; if that is the case, why do you think we can trust you, when certain moves by you as a webmaster can themselves be deemed questionable?

and if this has happened to in gilly's case, we still do not know how many other people have had their inboxes snooped into. so what was actually needed here was an explanation.


therefore, the questions being posed by all of us are:

1. why did you use the pm.php module to read gilly's (not a spammer's) pms?

2. what, in your opinion, constitutes fairness when her ouster was decided by only you and greg- which is a minority in the FA team? how can you expect people to make sound judgments with regards to moderation when you yourself, as a webmaster, are clearly biased and prejudiced towards people in your own team?

3. why do you send pms to those who question you, or ask you for an explanation? are you unable to spell it out in the main thread?

4. why were winnie, nessa, and gilly removed in spite of the fact that there was, and is, no evidence whatsoever to back up the claim that they weren't efficient moderators?



since i am going out as well, i hope to see a balanced explanation for this soon.

if your opinions and moves here are not debatable at all, then i am sorry to say- that makes you a nazi, which is what you yourself have been advising us not to take to while managing the forum threads.




toodles,
pf.
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31-12-2009, 10:20 AM
#29
tusme
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Right!! Can this thread be closed until the new year, please...?
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31-12-2009, 12:55 PM
#30
sean
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Pink,

I've said what i needed to say. This isn't open to discussion. I'm here to do my job as i see fit, if you want to leave then just say. My recent actions are due to information i saw as reliable, and i did what i thought necessary in the interests of the forum.

You have no say in the matter unfortunately. And you have made your position perfectly clear.

I'm off for the evening now. Happy new year all!

Sean
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Last edited by sean; 31-12-2009 at 01:13 PM.



logic bomb
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Sean, can you clarify something for me? In your initial post you said

Quote:
NO. I do not read pm's ever
Quote:
it has never been used, and i'm appalled that you think so lowly of me
Quote:
The fact remains that Gilly was found to be breaking the moderation guidelines, and i thought this to be a good tool to use in verifying that. It's absolutely my job to do so on here, and i stand by it.
Quote:
But as there was a fairly serious accusation at Gilly being brought to my attention, and as we've had a lot of problems recently with spammers, i thought this plugin could be of use.
Sean you've gone from saying "I do not read pm's ever" to admitting that you have read PMs (even if it is justified by some fucked up logic). Can you explain this contradiction please ?

One of the PMs you read (admincp/pm.php?userid=24856&folderid=0&pmid=382277 ) was a conversation between Gilly and myself on Dec 23rd. Nothing juicy to find in that one as you know but the point is by snooping in the PM inboxes of 2 mods (that I know of) you have also read other peoples private conversations by proxy (including mine). Do you see the problem here? The knock on effect that you have created? How many peoples privacy have you invaded in this little endeavour?

Quote:
What dusan has done here, is use a hack/exploit in the forum to spy on me doing my job as webmaster.
What Dusan did was use a tool that was given to him by the administrators of this forum (that's you). Anyone with basic mod privileges has always been able to see exactly what anyone is doing and what URL they are viewing regardless of whether they are in the AdminCP or not. That's always been the case so there's no need to over dramatise it with the James Bond rubbish OK. You gave us that tool, it's part of the information given out here. No different to viewing what thread someone is reading. Surely you must be aware of this?

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01-01-2010, 05:27 AM
#32
darketernal
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Sean I too would like you to answer Matt’s question. You denied looking at anyone’s private messages, then admitted to just one instance of doing it when caught and accused. Would you have admitted to it had you not been caught, and considering the shady ethics involved in this alone what reassurances do we have that you have not read all of our private messages at your own whim?

As for the situation with Gilly, you have admitted you only consulted with two other admin before making this choice, however Alison was not an admin at the time Gilly was removed, leaving only Greg. You consulted with the one admin who is a skeptic of David’s research, and a great many of the topics that we discuss on the forum heavily. Spying on people’s private messages given the stand David has made regarding “big brother” and people’s right to privacy, forces me to ask the question: do you even believe in the things David discusses? Are the most influential people regarding mod and admin actions on this forum believers in the topics of discussion here and of David’s research? Are those individuals even familiar with psychic warfare or how they might be influenced by such things? If not, then I am extremely concerned regarding the security of this forum, given the importance of it.

Why is it ok for you to spy on a mod’s private messages, but not ok for a mod to use the tools you gave them to catch you in the act? If we hold the same standards of ethics if Dusan is removed for this, I would ask that you consider stepping down as forum manager.

Why is it ok for people to post racist statements on our forum and have the points reversed in the name of free speech, but mods cannot call out admin in private mod forums for wrong doings without retribution? Sean I am sorry, but I cannot in good conscious accept and live with the fact that you have read the private messages of one of us, regardless of the reason, without speaking out against it. This is no better than the spying the intel agencies use against us all in the name of “national security”. It is a violation of my own ethics, as well as the very ethics and ideals all of David’s research and work is based upon. If you feel the need to remove me as a mod for this, I cannot stop you, but know that for me it will be a clear sign that this is no longer the David Icke official forum, but instead Sean’s official forum. Do we uphold the ideals of free speech, rights to privacy or equality? I do not believe that someone who believes it is acceptable to read someone’s private messages should be a mod let alone an admin of this forum, and I cannot remain silent on this, even if it costs me my mod position. I’m not going to go along to get along on an ethical issue such as this, because someone with authority might punish me for it.

If this forum is run by people who believe such things are acceptable I am not fighting to protect anything worthwhile. Sean if you tell me these are the ethics by which our forum is run (gross violations of privacy like reading PM’s and admin not being held to the same standards of accountability, and people not even believing in David’s research or ideas running this forum), then we have built a forum on such massive hypocrisy that, had I know this in the past, I would have never accepted the offer to be a mod. I know in my heart that even if they are remaining silent, others are thinking things along these lines.
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www.infinite-love-forum.com/viewtopic.php?p=24113#p24113

Sean's a liar. He didn't read my PMs because he thought I was spying on him. I never had a facility to spy on anybody, and he knows that.

I'd had a disagreement with I_Am on the mod section. One of many small disagreements. I'd told her it would make a nice change if she supported the mods for once instead of just defending herself in respect to some venomously worded complaint from a trollish member. Her response was to tell me to "Jam it up my arse", and storm off, changing her own status to premier member. Chllenging the 'Seniors' is not acceptable, and I did it regularly, because I felt that certain people constantly contradicted themselves re moderation issues, and behaved hypocritically, creating a totally unfair level of inconsistency, and rendering the underling mods confused and unable to get it right.

I knew instantly that she'd be back, and want me gone before plonking her arse back on the throne, so that she didn't loose face.

I believe that Sean was looking for some justification to get rid of me in preparation for her return.

I don't know what PM he's since claimed was the one breaking moderation guidelines, because that was never given to me as an explanation for my being sacked.

I only learned of his PM reading activites when I was already gone.

I suspect that the one in question is a PM I issued to two mods, in which I (politely) urged them to stop tugging their forlocks and profusely apologising to I_AM and posting embarrassed face emoticons, in response to her stalking them round the mod forum, criticing and bitching at them for every thing they did!

www.infinite-love-forum.com/viewtopic.php?p=24385#p24385

hey guys!

before i start braying like a donkey on here, i want to thank IAAIA for letting us (the fallen ones as i can see we are being labelled in some places, lol) use this platform to voice our concerns and give our side of the story, even when he and this site are banned from the DIF.

...well i have to admit this whole situation is amusingly ironic i have just registered after reading some posts in this thread... and i decided whatever i'd want to post, i'd do it on ILF instead of sodlike hereon.

i had made a post on there earlier, and IAAIA had raised a few questions about past happenings on the forum with regards to moderation. unfortunately, i am not in a position to answer those questions (which i see DE had already answered for you in another thread) because i became a DIF member only in oct '08. any prior issues as far as moderation and forum guidelines are concerned are not discussed with 'new' moderators i guess. as DE has already told you before, these topics weren't raised amongst the mods, and i've caught up on a whole lot of news after checking this forum out! i had not even heard of soglad, phoenix etc. till you brought them up... so i am genuinely sorry your questions relating to back then cannot be answered by me, at least.

i am also aware that many members are concerned and disgusted because we have apparently taken to posting our views on anti DI sites. to them, i would like to say- to be very frank and open, i am not brimming with enthusiasm and rubbing my hands in glee just at the thought of posting on forums everywhere. if given a choice, none of us would have spoken out the way we did... but sadly, when we raised our voices, we were pushed into a corner and given the heavy hand. when push comes to shove, you need to grab the bull by the horns and take charge in any way you can, even if it means using a 'medium' that may not be fancied by many.

so the fact remains that though forums such as this and the others have been banned for some reason, these very people are today helping us speak out, because we could not do so on our own 'forum', with our own team. instead of shooting the messenger, i suggest that people use their discernment to evaluate the message we are trying to put across.


...with that said, if anybody has any questions whatsoever regarding this incident- please feel free to ask. gilly and DE have already done so and people may be more 'clued in' now... but if anyone still has doubts, don't hesitate to put it across so we can try and clear the air.

a big thank you for the people here once again. i will be on again in a few hours. gtg right now as i've just got back from a much needed break! ...hoping to catch up with you all soon, later tonight (SMILE)





pf.

www.infinite-love-forum.com/viewtopic.php?p=24395#p24395

In answer to your question about Sean's privacy being violated, Runciter, that was never the case.

We all (including members) had the facility to look at 'Who's Online', and see who was doing what (as in viewing a particular thread, creating a PM, posting on a thread etc). Admittedly, I'm not very savy with computers generally, but the only difference with STRT's observation of what Sean was doing, to the best of my understanding, is that he realised what it was that Sean was looking at.

He provided me with a list of numbers that he'd witnessed Sean viewing, and asked me to hover my mouse over the titles in my PM index.

As you do this, a number, linked to each particular pm appears towards the bottom, left of the screen. It's something that I'd never noticed before.

Therefore, I was able to identify 5 specific PMs Sean had been seen reading - though there were a lot more that he'd been seen reading, which STRT hadn't recorded the numbers of. It was only when I could confirm that these numbers were linked to individual PMs that he was 100% certain of what he'd seen (although a part of each number was an index that denoted it as being linked to my username).

So in a nutshell - no, Sean's privacy wasn't intruded on at all.

I can't comment on the situation with Rodin, as I don't know anything about it, and I don't think I was there when what you're describing took place.

www.infinite-love-forum.com/viewtopic.php?p=24403#p24403

haukipesukone wrote:

hi hauk

to answer your questions:


1. dusan is strt. personally, i do not think it was/ is right for people to know the names of all the mods, lol, coz after all i am sure they would have liked to keep it private... but i guess this 'convo' needed to be pasted for people to know what was going on, especially since many were confused thanks to the gazillion stories flying around.

2. gilly did not break any moderation or forum guidelines whatsoever. as she has already explained previously in this thread, she was vocal about some mod/ admin issues, which was not taken too well by some admins. i_am left the admin team temporarily, and gilly was ousted in order for i_am to come back as tech advisor and not have anyone question admin decisions as far as modding the forum threads are concerned. since there was no 'valid' reason for booting gilly from the team, sean used the external pm.php module to snoop into her pms, ended up reading hers, limelady's as well as logic_bomb's pms, and used CONFIDENTIAL and PRIVATE information therein to kick gilly out.

i can very honestly tell you that gilly has not sought to do anything wrong as far as doing her job as mod is concerned.

3. strt was NOT spying on sean. that allegation put forth by sean and i_am is baseless. in the convo that was pasted, logic_bomb also refuted sean's claims that strt 'hacked' into sean's account or whatever. we do not need to hack anything to view thread urls- it is a very basic function one is given when he/she is made a moderator or administrator/ advisor.

to elaborate further- again, we mods are given very simple tools which allow us to see which member is viewing which thread. we CANNOT- and i repeat- CANNOT, view private messages.

what happened here was that strt happened to hover the cursor over each name, and when he came across sean's name in the active users list, he spotted the url 'pm.php............'

strt is very well versed in software tech, and he deduced that 'pm.php' is a module used in forums to check up on private messages. this function used by sean was NOT a default option that came with the forum software. it is an 'add on', which means sean installed it later- perhaps to keep a check on spammers and trolls who were misusing the forum for other purposes.

strt found out that the url sean was viewing coincided with gilly's user ID. when we put two and two together, we came to know that sean was checking out gilly's pms. this amounted to sean severely misusing the module to keep a check not on spammers, but on members of his own moderation team- when there was absolutely no reason for him to do so. as i have said before, we still do not know how many other mods/admin and even members MAY have had their privacy infringed upon for no justifiable reason.

add to that sean first denying doing everything, then later admitting to it under the guise of 'gilly breaking guidelines' (which was a desperate attempt to make what he did look like he was doing his 'job' for the good of the forum) led us to voice our dissent and either get kicked for it, or have our posting privileges curbed.

www.infinite-love-forum.com/viewtopic.php?p=24617#p24617

(Yey!) I've spotted a few members here who I know & am very fond of. I don't recognise you though, Darkcloud, but I like your style!

Haukiespoke, I was 1st out, then STRT for his computer handiwork - I think DE was next to go, then LL, who was on the verge of resigning anyways, & had posted some excellent rebellious comments. I can't remember the order the rest left in - I think it was Pinky next, who posted a blistering attack on the poor little Daisy-boy - as did they most of the others.

Those PMs were chock-full of loving messages, and good-natured banter, and when I realised he'd been in them, it fairly made my blood boil with rage, and I felt like I'd found a stalker rooting through my undies drawer!!! I'd have shaken his scrawny neck if I could have reached him!

When he'd booted me under false pretences, and refused to answer any of my questions regarding why, he tried to use a free ticket to see Icke at Brixton as a bribery! He feigned hurt indignation at my response (which I'll leave to your fertile imaginations (SMILE) ) such is his talent for spinning any situation to make himself appear the victim.

www.infinite-love-forum.com/viewtopic.php?p=25761#p25761

@ wub - The moon thing can't be proven, but you can't argue with maths. Maybe its not a spacehip, but there are some big irregularities. these are some notes I made if you feel inclinded to take a look:.

domathy wrote: Thanks for taking the time to post that. I have read it, and I hope in this lifetime I have the time to look into it more depth, I'm sure it's an interesting subject. I'm sure there are many things about the universe that are either not understood or erroneously understood; I can't see what all the fuss is about this Higgs Boson particle as it doesn't really address the fundamental questions that we don't know the answer to anyway.

I don't know about the Higgs Boson thing - I'll google it to see what you mean.

In 2007 David Icke’s Freedom Foundation received a total of $112,090 ihcenter.org/07-990/07-990-16.html in donations

domathy wrote: Okay to explain briefly from my layman's perspective! The Higgs Boson is an elementary particle, the so-called 'God particle' that supposedly explains why other particles in the universe have mass. But the whole debate is about what created the universe. Creationists literally believe God created the universe. Fair enough, I'm not knocking that. I assume that scientists believe this 'God particle' throws that out of the window. But it doesn't really because the Higgs Boson particle has mass. According to Wikipedia, its mass is:

125.3±0.6 GeV/c2, ∼126 GeV/c2

...whatever that means! So the whole question is...there is now tangible mass in the universe, there is a physical world, an external reality, there is something out there, we can all agree on that. What pre-dated this? How did we go from there being nothing to being something? It wasn't the Higgs Boson particle that predicated this because it is comprised of something. It has mass. It is tangible. It exists. So what created the Higgs Boson particle? The 'Big Bang' theory doesn't explain it because it suggests that the universe expanded due to being in a hot and dense state. Where did this heat come from? What created this state? What created the bang if there was no universe and no matter? They don't have any answers at all.

Creationists can still quite legitimately claim that God created the Higgs Boson particle. No-one can either prove or disprove this, certainly not with conventional science. The bottom line is...what created the universe? Science will never answer this question.

I’m not sure how that for­mat­ting is going to look as there isn’t a pre­view but­ton here.

Thanks for explaining in lay terms. And your'e right of course, it doesnt explain anything or prove anything, as you say, God could have created this special particle. (I say the same about reptillians - even if they did exists, it doesnt mean there isnt a creator of some kind, actualy probably implies there is one and he/she has a sense of humour.) Isnt the point with particles that they do have mass, but only sometimes? ie they are only able to observed when there is an observer looking at them, otherwise they go off to some other dimension? Something called wave particle duality - or maybe that just refers to light particles, im not sure. I found Nassim Harramein's ideas intersting, he says that scientists are always building more expensive methods of searching for the smallest particle, but they will never find it because life is infinite and everything exists in a grain of sand. So for instance an entire universe exists inside a particle, then if you go inside that universe and find another particle, that particle also contains a universe, and so it goes on to infinity. I like that idea anyway

Hello, my friend.

You're free to believe whatever you want.

I have had a short look at your post, but I assure you I have read many others like it.

I really don't want a long debate on the subject, so I would just like to make the following observations:

(i) I think attacking people who are not here to defend themselves on the base of, what I consider to be, circumstancial evidence, is pretty low. Other people may consider it more substantial, that is their right. I do not think there is one person who is well-known as an 'alternative researcher' who has not been dragged through the mud based on similar material, which I would say amounts to hearsay, supposition and some pretty tenuous connections. I do not think this is quite satisfactory to be going around accusing someone to be a 'gatekeeper' or 'agent of the Rothschilds / Rockefellers'.

(ii) I do think that people may have a legitimate criticism of Icke when they say that some of his writing is not well referenced and does not fully acknowledge writers and researchers who have influenced him (you may say from whom he has borrowed / stolen). This is why when I wrote my first book I absolutely painstakingly referenced every single assertion of fact in it.

(iii) I would question whether this is the sort of material we wish to see on this site - again others may disagree - when we have already been (baselessly) accused of being an anti-DI site. I really think people need to make a distinction between the DIF, which I strongly believe DI has nothing to do with (although, whether he should take more of an interest in it considering it is on his website is another matter entirely), and the person himself. It seems to me that some people who, understandably, feel they were wronged by the hierarchy at the DIF have thrown the baby out with the bathwater.

(iv) The most important question I would ask you is...how would you like your name to be dragged through the mud based on hearsay? Based on one person's word against another? Especially when you don't have the opportunity to defend yourself. For example, the stuff that the guy from the 'Illusions forum' provided is completely unreasonable. It is in no way unreasonable of Icke to copyright his own material. Whether or not he has breached others' copyright in the past would be a matter for those writers and the publishers involved, not something for people to gossip about on Internet forums. Obviously, you cannot stop this, but it's not the sort of thing I would wish to get involved in.

It's perfectly reasonable for someone to write a newsletter every week, and, in effect, charge 75p for it, and then when other people blatantly breach that copyright for the owner of it to take action against them. I fully support him in this action.

Over and over again in these sort of forums - it happened on the DIF forum all the time - I see people whingeing about various writers, researchers and broadcasters income or financial circumstances. If DI was in the gutter and selling no books at all, he would be constantly attacked for being a failure. Because he is doing quite well and is a pretty successful writer, he is constantly attacked for this instead. You really can't win. If other people perhaps focused their energy on doing something constructive, perhaps the world would be in a slightly better state.

I am fully in favour of constructive criticism of Icke's work, or anyone else's for that matter, but this sort of ad hominem attack on his reputation is, in my opinion, gutless. All the people that criticise him and others, and seem to put so much energy into it...let's see some of your books. Let's see you set up and run your own publishing business. Let's hear some of your radio interviews and talks. I've written one book of 300,000 words, and done one radio interview of just over one hour, and I have some vague idea of what is involved, and I assure you that it's hard work. If you disagree with Icke, fair enough. If you think his work has no merit, fair enough. If you think he's a shyster, fair enough. It shouldn't be difficult for you to produce something better then, should it?

(e) I understand that people are very interested in 'modgate' and all that PM stuff, and as far as I have been able to ascertain some good people and decent posters were treated shabbily. I have heard Sean's side of the story of this issue, and I cannot dismiss it out of hand as I don't have any first-hand evidence. Obviously, I am here because I was not happy with the way that the DIF was being run, so I do have some sympathy regarding this subject. But while this may reflect on Icke, as I discussed previously, I think we need to make a distinction between (a) the forum, and (b) the person, which are two completely different things.

(f) I don't agree with the reptilian stuff, although I found it interesting to read, and it is certainly intriguing how often this imagery pops up in the contemporary world, for example in the City of London. It certainly lead me to reading a lot of stuff about ancient cultures that I otherwise would have known nothing about whatsoever, and I have encountered it since on numerous occasions, for example, the video game Tomb Raider Underworld makes a huge amount of references to this sort of material. I would fully agree that this does not really represent substantial evidence that the world is run by blood-drinking reptiles. Personally, I don't like to get into anything contentious, and try to take a pragmatic view, and only really look at stuff that can be 100% documented and proven. Thus, I haven't bothered looking at the moon stuff yet. I doubt I would agree with it, and even if I did, I would suggest that it is pretty difficult to back it up!

I'm sure I have many beliefs that do not concur with the majority of people in the 'alternative movement' (for want of a better name). For example, on the balance of evidence and probability, I think the NASA mission in 1969 likely did go to the moon, I've never looked into chemtrails as while I consider it highly possible, it's going to be virtually impossible to prove decisively, I don't necessarily agree that the Rothschilds are the most prominent family in the world, and definitively running everything (this is confirmed by Quigley), although I'm sure they retain a far more prominent position than is largely known by the general public, and so on.

However, I'm not going to slate someone for having different beliefs to me.

I hope you don't view this as a personal attack on yourself, I just wanted to fully clarify my viewpoint. I'm also sorry if you consider my views on the Infinite Love forum to be unreasonable or unpalatable, but my experience of reading it is that there are / were some truly vile people on there who have nothing positive to say about anything. Of course, you and anyone else are welcome to disagree.

I don't wish to see this forum dragged down to that level, as it has been an entirely positive one up to now.

I AM ALL I AM wrote:
Is the link right? Its not working for me.

I AM ALL I AM wrote:
There are two preview modes which can be accessed using the preview icons in the top bar of the editor, they are located to the left of the help icon. If you hover the mouse over the icon you will see the options...either pane below or pane right.

If you “don’t want a long debate on the sub­ject”, feel free to not respond to this post.