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TOPIC: No-one should ever work! Fuck work!

No-one should ever work! Fuck work! 12 Feb 2014 13:29 #81

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mikey mikey wrote:
Shall we leave it up to the OP to decide whether this is on topic or not?

Or do you get to say what is and what is not on topic, no matter how closely related to the thread title and opening post?

I am waiting for a response to a particular point I have raised, that is the topic I'm referring to. (I won't get one though, because andy has legged it). Until my point is addressed I suggest all other matters are off-topic.


A topic on the monetary system, give the complexity, scale, and intricacy of it is surely worthy of its own thread and outside of the realms of this topic of discussion (no-one should ever work! Fuck work!) wouldn't you agree?
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No-one should ever work! Fuck work! 12 Feb 2014 13:32 #82

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SilvaRizla wrote:

The monetary system can be boiled down to a symbol for the exchange of human services,

It could be boiled down to that, but it wouldn't be very accurate.
What exactly is being traded by human services when money itself is the largest commodity traded in the market?
Numbers arbitrarily moved around computers by computers.... creating billions of problems for ordinary people while making a tiny few extremely rich. Where is the benefit to society?
Not to mention that over half the world has none to exchange.... which would obviously suggest that it clearly doesn't work.
Set the controls for the heart of the earth.
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No-one should ever work! Fuck work! 12 Feb 2014 13:36 #83

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mikey mikey wrote:
Barnfish wrote:
He is arguing for a system of no money and work without pay is a slave system.

I'm sorry but that could not be further from the truth.

He is arguing for a resource based economy, which would have no need for money.

The only people that would lose anything from such a move would be those that print and control the money supply and that is not the government btw.

Basically with today's technology it would be possible to measure and store the quantity of a certain good, and connect with the demand or requirement side and share the resources, and skip the speculative and profit aspect in the exchange.

This requires moving away from competitive behaviour to a cooperative behaviour which, unless you believe people are generally lazy and selfish and must be made to work (I do not), would be more efficient, healthier and have less impact on our environment. Simply put: money is replaced by gratitude, trading is replaced by sharing and ownership is replaced by usership.

Your vision has no checks to prevent people ripping each other off. People with more to trade than others will make those who have nothing to trade work for them, for free. That is slavery.
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No-one should ever work! Fuck work! 12 Feb 2014 13:41 #84

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Barnfish wrote:
andyh wrote:
..........

Trade= exchanging something for something.

Your definition= exchanging fuck all for something of real value.

How will your system prevent fraud and some evil people ripping off others?

How does this system do that?
Clue: It doesn't & is based on it.
Set the controls for the heart of the earth.
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No-one should ever work! Fuck work! 12 Feb 2014 13:42 #85

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Space Bandit wrote:
SilvaRizla wrote:

The monetary system can be boiled down to a symbol for the exchange of human services,

It could be boiled down to that, but it wouldn't be very accurate.
What exactly is being traded by human services when money itself is the largest commodity traded in the market?
Numbers arbitrarily moved around computers by computers.... creating billions of problems for ordinary people while making a tiny few extremely rich. Where is the benefit to society?
Not to mention that over half the world has none to exchange.... which would obviously suggest that it clearly doesn't work.

In a moneyless system, those with nothing to trade except themselves will become the slaves of those with something to trade. Those who argue for a moneyless system of trade are wanting to replace a system where people can work for a product (money) and then use it for what they wish to one of total control over others and what they can and cannot do. The present system has its flaws and abuses, the suggested system will have that plus an evil trade in people. Bankers will become slave masters. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
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No-one should ever work! Fuck work! 12 Feb 2014 13:44 #86

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Space Bandit wrote:
SilvaRizla wrote:

The monetary system can be boiled down to a symbol for the exchange of human services,

It could be boiled down to that, but it wouldn't be very accurate.
What exactly is being traded by human services when money itself is the largest commodity traded in the market?
Numbers arbitrarily moved around computers by computers.... creating billions of problems for ordinary people while making a tiny few extremely rich. Where is the benefit to society?
Not to mention that over half the world has none to exchange.... which would obviously suggest that it clearly doesn't work.

Bit of a curveball this. Talking in broader concepts of world GDP when relating to a symbol at a fundamental level.

Currency is a symbol. Its a promise of work. What is actually being traded at the top level fundamentally is a nations work rate. Work rate is what you refer to as the largest commodity.

Where is the benefit to society?

I'm happy to get in to it with you, but for you to understand it, we need to start from the ground up. Create a new thread and I'm there.
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No-one should ever work! Fuck work! 12 Feb 2014 13:46 #87

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mikey mikey wrote:
Shall we leave it up to the OP to decide whether this is on topic or not?

Or do you get to say what is and what is not on topic, no matter how closely related to the thread title and opening post?

It's all very closely related.... I don't see how it isn't.
Set the controls for the heart of the earth.
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No-one should ever work! Fuck work! 12 Feb 2014 13:48 #88

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Barnfish wrote:
Space Bandit wrote:
SilvaRizla wrote:

The monetary system can be boiled down to a symbol for the exchange of human services,

It could be boiled down to that, but it wouldn't be very accurate.
What exactly is being traded by human services when money itself is the largest commodity traded in the market?
Numbers arbitrarily moved around computers by computers.... creating billions of problems for ordinary people while making a tiny few extremely rich. Where is the benefit to society?
Not to mention that over half the world has none to exchange.... which would obviously suggest that it clearly doesn't work.

In a moneyless system, those with nothing to trade except themselves will become the slaves of those with something to trade. Those who argue for a moneyless system of trade are wanting to replace a system where people can work for a product (money) and then use it for what they wish to one of total control over others and what they can and cannot do. The present system has its flaws and abuses, the suggested system will have that plus an evil trade in people. Bankers will become slave masters. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

I've discussed this topic at great length with internet people over the years. Thus far, out of hundreds, you are the only person I have come across who sees the big picture.

You sir, have restored my faith.

:thumbup:
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No-one should ever work! Fuck work! 12 Feb 2014 13:51 #89

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Space Bandit wrote:
mikey mikey wrote:
Shall we leave it up to the OP to decide whether this is on topic or not?

Or do you get to say what is and what is not on topic, no matter how closely related to the thread title and opening post?

It's all very closely related.... I don't see how it isn't.

Well Silva seems to disagree because :arrowdown:
SilvaRizla wrote:
I am waiting for a response to a particular point I have raised, that is the topic I'm referring to. (I won't get one though, because andy has legged it). Until my point is addressed I suggest all other matters are off-topic.

I think you can demand to have your question answered but I don't think you can declare everything from everybody off-topic until it is.
thank you St Jude for favours granted
Last Edit: 12 Feb 2014 13:53 by mikey mikey.
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No-one should ever work! Fuck work! 12 Feb 2014 13:52 #90

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Space Bandit wrote:
Barnfish wrote:
andyh wrote:
..........

Trade= exchanging something for something.

Your definition= exchanging fuck all for something of real value.

How will your system prevent fraud and some evil people ripping off others?

How does this system do that?
Clue: It doesn't & is based on it.

The existing system has flaws and lacks regulation. I do not support it. That is why I have been proposing on this forum a rational, sensible, safe way of abandoning the banks for a money system controlled by the people. That reduces the flaws and increases the regulation and bankers cannot fleece people and they work for us.

So again,"How will your system prevent fraud and some evil people ripping off others?".
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No-one should ever work! Fuck work! 12 Feb 2014 13:53 #91

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mikey mikey wrote:
SilvaRizla wrote:
I am waiting for a response to a particular point I have raised, that is the topic I'm referring to. (I won't get one though, because andy has legged it). Until my point is addressed I suggest all other matters are off-topic.

I think you can demand to have your question answered but I don't think you can declare everything from everybody off-topic until it is.

So you think its recommended to divert the core topic for 80 pages before my question gets answered?
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No-one should ever work! Fuck work! 12 Feb 2014 13:56 #92

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Barnfish wrote:
Your vision has no checks to prevent people ripping each other off. People with more to trade than others will make those who have nothing to trade work for them, for free. That is slavery.

There's not trade in the resource based economy. See my description above.

c.f. Wage Slavery
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No-one should ever work! Fuck work! 12 Feb 2014 13:57 #93

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it's a four letter word, Even when employed I've always managed to avoid it
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No-one should ever work! Fuck work! 12 Feb 2014 13:57 #94

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mikey mikey wrote:
Barnfish wrote:
Your vision has no checks to prevent people ripping each other off. People with more to trade than others will make those who have nothing to trade work for them, for free. That is slavery.

There's not trade in the resource based economy. See my description above.

c.f. Wage Slavery

lol wut? :killinme:
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No-one should ever work! Fuck work! 12 Feb 2014 13:59 #95

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SilvaRizla wrote:
So you think its recommended to divert the core topic for 80 pages before my question gets answered?

I think what I described above.

BTW Andyh is probably busy working as I will be shortly: feel free to crow that I have run away too.

I'm sure your victory will put a shine on your otherwise uneventful day. :lumi:
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No-one should ever work! Fuck work! 12 Feb 2014 14:01 #96

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Evil people will always rip others off - whether there is money or not.
Last Edit: 12 Feb 2014 14:01 by Verlander.
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No-one should ever work! Fuck work! 12 Feb 2014 14:02 #97

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mikey mikey wrote:
SilvaRizla wrote:
So you think its recommended to divert the core topic for 80 pages before my question gets answered?

I think what I described above.

What is that exactly?
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No-one should ever work! Fuck work! 12 Feb 2014 14:02 #98

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SilvaRizla wrote:
Space Bandit wrote:
SilvaRizla wrote:

The monetary system can be boiled down to a symbol for the exchange of human services,

It could be boiled down to that, but it wouldn't be very accurate.
What exactly is being traded by human services when money itself is the largest commodity traded in the market?
Numbers arbitrarily moved around computers by computers.... creating billions of problems for ordinary people while making a tiny few extremely rich. Where is the benefit to society?
Not to mention that over half the world has none to exchange.... which would obviously suggest that it clearly doesn't work.

Bit of a curveball this. Talking in broader concepts of world GDP when relating to a symbol at a fundamental level.

Currency is a symbol. Its a promise of work. What is actually being traded at the top level fundamentally is a nations work rate. Work rate is what you refer to as the largest commodity.

Where is the benefit to society?

I'm happy to get in to it with you, but for you to understand it, we need to start from the ground up. Create a new thread and I'm there.

Numbers being arbitrarily moved around computers is bugger all to do with work rate. The majority of it is simply creating more money out of the fact that it exists in the first place, facilitated by the fact that the rich are able to determine the rules of how money works. (which is for a tiny few, but this is the logical culmination of how a money system works, or doesn't for most people.)
It's all part of the same topic.... how could it not be?
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No-one should ever work! Fuck work! 12 Feb 2014 14:03 #99

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Verlander wrote:
Evil people will always rip others off - whether there is money or not.

That's the problem with the current system, and the problem with any I have seen that may replace it.
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No-one should ever work! Fuck work! 12 Feb 2014 14:03 #100

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SilvaRizla wrote:
mikey mikey wrote:
Barnfish wrote:
Your vision has no checks to prevent people ripping each other off. People with more to trade than others will make those who have nothing to trade work for them, for free. That is slavery.

There's not trade in the resource based economy. See my description above.

c.f. Wage Slavery

lol wut? :killinme:

You aren't even familiar with the term? :chuckle:

Try repeating: I should use my search engine before I scoff at things about which I am ignorant.
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