So we know you just sit around complaining about those decisions etc.
Are these "ridiculous" people who merely vote more active or less active in politics than you are?
They seem to be more active in handing all their power of decision making over to someone else. That's the only decision they seem to get to make... the decision to give someone else the power to make all their decisions for them. It sounds like madness to me.
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Surely you mean if you vote for a party knowing they are planning to go to war, or start a war, say like between Immigrants and Nationals like UKIP, then you are partially accountable?
Well, you're thinking of voting for a party that when it was last in power started illegal wars. Same people in the cabinet with a few shuffled faces... but somehow you expect a different result?
Bullshit, your opinions on the war on Iraq are as pointless as your opinions on Politics I'm afraid.
Obviously it's not as cut & dry if there were a new party with entirely new faces.... but if they were to do the same & they were voted into parliament for a 2nd term, then yes, I think those who voted for the slaughter of innocent people to continue should be imprisoned along with the perpetrators.
Yes well you're obviously not ever going to be in a position to arrest and detain hundreds of thousands of people
I wasn't aware that I was 'just being negative on the internet' by simply stating my position (which is entirely well founded & logical).
If YOU want to moan about it you should seriously think about refusing to endorse such a shambolic system which makes a mockery of democracy. You speak as if it's going to be possible for you to change whatever they're up to by voting for it & then complaining about it... I mean, seriously, do get a grip!
I also wasn't aware that Icke had 'dramatically altered' my world view. I like some of Icke's stuff but I think a lot of it to be bollox. Make of that what you will, not that it has any relevance to this.... since I've never voted before I ever read any of his books for the same reasons & I'm on my way to being 40.
You think your position is well founded and logical but you haven't explained it.
What do you think about change, how does non participation in politics and letting Right Wing Reactionaries, financial and corporate institutions dominate the State make positive change more likely?
So we know you just sit around complaining about those decisions etc.
Are these "ridiculous" people who merely vote more active or less active in politics than you are?
They seem to be more active in handing all their power of decision making over to someone else. That's the only decision they seem to get to make... the decision to give someone else the power to make all their decisions for them. It sounds like madness to me.
You're not even using proper english in this rant.
Do point out where.
"if you believe you're voting for real democracy"
What the hell does that even mean, I don't believe I am voting for anything, are you a Solipsist?
Perhaps you should explain why you think that representative democracy is real democracy. It's already been explained to you several times by several posters why it's bollox so I can only conclude that you're a complete moron.
I know the status quo is not ok, Marxism is a SCIENCE for examining the ways in which the ideological branches which grew from Adam Smith's Liberal Democratic theories contain the seed of inequality and exploitation, private property.
The status quo is so imbalanced that I have to vote for any political party that challenges the Tories, because if you don't vote against the tories and they get into power, then lot's of kids will die from poverty in the UK and society will disintegrate and be auctioned off, it's that simple.
So basically, you have to vote for an alternative to the Tories or else we're all fucked?
But what happens if everybody took the stance not to vote....? It's that simple eh?
You advocate burying your head in David Ickes sand box.
I advocate voting tactically for your class interest, and not leaving your democratic participation there, I advocate being involved in local political parties, networking and working together with various groups to over come the tories.
What do you advocate apart from complaining all day everyday on the internet?
I don't complain all day on the internet. Try the mirror.
Icke has fuck all to do with it so trying to attribute anything to Icke is just strawman bollox.
If you want to vote labour, it's up to you. It's obviously a completely stupid idea to expect different results from something that's proven not to work, and to vote for your own slavery. But hey ho, it takes all sorts.
You're sitting around on the internet making huge derogatory generalizations and assumptions about lot's of different people, you dismiss and belittle everybody who votes asserting they are unthinking, docile compliant sheep, you say voting is giving your "power away" and that it "sounds like madness", so what do you do?
How should these "mad" "powerless" voters behave differently, should they sit around on the internet daydreaming about their ideal world?
You're sitting around on the internet making huge derogatory generalizations and assumptions about lot's of different people, you dismiss and belittle everybody who votes asserting they are unthinking, docile compliant sheep, you say voting is giving your "power away" and that it "sounds like madness", so what do you do?
What I do is take the decision not to vote, because it seems to me I'd only be voting for someone to make the least worst decisions out of a bunch of bad ones.
You're sitting around on the internet making huge derogatory generalizations and assumptions about lot's of different people, you dismiss and belittle everybody who votes asserting they are unthinking, docile compliant sheep, you say voting is giving your "power away" and that it "sounds like madness", so what do you do?
How should these "mad" "powerless" voters behave differently, should they sit around on the internet daydreaming about their ideal world?
By actively pushing for alternative ideas instead of doing the same old thing and voting for the same old thing.
Which is precisely what many do on here and outside of this forum.
You on the other hand choose to maintain it and sneer at anyone who dares to so much as dream of anything different, let alone do anything different.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
You're not even using proper english in this rant.
Do point out where.
"if you believe you're voting for real democracy"
What the hell does that even mean, I don't believe I am voting for anything, are you a Solipsist?
Perhaps you should explain why you think that representative democracy is real democracy. It's already been explained to you several times by several posters why it's bollox so I can only conclude that you're a complete moron.
Who said I do think that representative democracy is "the real democracy", wtf kind of ridiculous argument is that?
Are you one of these idiots who says Capitalism is fine we just don't have real capitalism?
So basically, you have to vote for an alternative to the Tories or else we're all fucked?
But what happens if everybody took the stance not to vote....? It's that simple eh?
Wow you're very slow, if everybody could grow vegetables in their bumhole and shat out gold coins we could solve the economic downturn, wow it is simple.....to reason and think like a 7yr old.
If you want to vote labour, it's up to you. It's obviously a completely stupid idea to expect different results from something that's proven not to work, and to vote for your own slavery. But hey ho, it takes all sorts.
I've already explained to you that I don't vote labour and more support the green party
Fuck you're slow, keep this up you'll be welcome back at DIF with open arms.
You're sitting around on the internet making huge derogatory generalizations and assumptions about lot's of different people, you dismiss and belittle everybody who votes asserting they are unthinking, docile compliant sheep, you say voting is giving your "power away" and that it "sounds like madness", so what do you do?
How should these "mad" "powerless" voters behave differently, should they sit around on the internet daydreaming about their ideal world?
By actively pushing for alternative ideas instead of doing the same old thing and voting for the same old thing.
Which is precisely what many do on here and outside of this forum.
You on the other hand choose to maintain it and sneer at anyone who dares to so much as dream of anything different, let alone do anything different.
You talk a load of bollocks that hasn't changed in four years, you just post stories about the recession and complain about debt like Peter Schiff, you advocate voting for Libertarian right wingers and run a business which you've always maintained enables you to recoup all the "losses" you incur through paying tax.
You pay tax to the government yet you don't even vote and think you're a big anarchist
Bullshit, your opinions on the war on Iraq are as pointless as your opinions on Politics I'm afraid.
It wasn't an opinion on the Iraq war.
Yes well you're obviously not ever going to be in a position to arrest and detain hundreds of thousands of people
Is that what I said I was going to do?
You think your position is well founded and logical but you haven't explained it.
What do you think about change, how does non participation in politics and letting Right Wing Reactionaries, financial and corporate institutions dominate the State make positive change more likely?
It's been explained Mike & you're becoming tiresome now.
I will not show my support for financial & corporate institutions running the state by endorsing it by voting for it. You on the other hand....
You're sitting around on the internet making huge derogatory generalizations and assumptions about lot's of different people, you dismiss and belittle everybody who votes asserting they are unthinking, docile compliant sheep, you say voting is giving your "power away" and that it "sounds like madness", so what do you do?
What I do is take the decision not to vote, because it seems to me I'd only be voting for someone to make the least worst decisions out of a bunch of bad ones.
So in terms of political action, you choose non action, non participation and passivity
I just don't think there is a political party out there that represents me, Mike. They seem to represent themselves and the interests of corporations, etc.
It's been explained Mike & you're becoming tiresome now.
I will not show my support for financial & corporate institutions running the state by endorsing it by voting for it. You on the other hand....
You've explained nothing, but it's ok I realize from the last week or two it's genuinely beyond you.
Fair enough, if you think by participating in commerce but not politics you are doing something radical you're welcome to your delusion.
I just don't think there is a political party out there that represents me, Mike. They seem to represent themselves and the interests of corporations, etc.
Would it be fair to say you're completely disinterested and uninvolved in politics?
"if you believe you're voting for real democracy"
What the hell does that even mean, I don't believe I am voting for anything, are you a Solipsist?
Who said I do think that representative democracy is "the real democracy", wtf kind of ridiculous argument is that?
Er, it's based on the fact that you asked for clarity over whatever it is you can't seem to find clarity over above... so I've no idea whtf you're on about. You're obviously a total timewaster.
Are you one of these idiots who says Capitalism is fine we just don't have real capitalism?
No.
Should I revert to your tactic of asking wtf kind of ridiculous argument is that?
Wow you're very slow, if everybody could grow vegetables in their bumhole and shat out gold coins we could solve the economic downturn, wow it is simple.....to reason and think like a 7yr old.
Yes, it's that simple Mike. Why is it taking you so long to get a grasp on it when it's so blatantly obvious even to yourself?
Donut.
I've already explained to you that I don't vote labour and more support the green party
Fuck you're slow, keep this up you'll be welcome back at DIF with open arms.
You've voted for the cunts in the past.
As for the eco-fascists.... you & Icke seem better suited to me.
You've explained nothing, but it's ok I realize from the last week or two it's genuinely beyond you.
Fair enough, if you think by participating in commerce but not politics you are doing something radical you're welcome to your delusion.
Is this a competition of how you can come to the most ridiculous conclusions possible from whatever is posted?
You're well out in front anyway..... on your own.
You're sitting around on the internet making huge derogatory generalizations and assumptions about lot's of different people, you dismiss and belittle everybody who votes asserting they are unthinking, docile compliant sheep, you say voting is giving your "power away" and that it "sounds like madness", so what do you do?
How should these "mad" "powerless" voters behave differently, should they sit around on the internet daydreaming about their ideal world?
By actively pushing for alternative ideas instead of doing the same old thing and voting for the same old thing.
Which is precisely what many do on here and outside of this forum.
You on the other hand choose to maintain it and sneer at anyone who dares to so much as dream of anything different, let alone do anything different.
You talk a load of bollocks that hasn't changed in four years, you just post stories about the recession and complain about debt like Peter Schiff, you advocate voting for Libertarian right wingers and run a business which you've always maintained enables you to recoup all the "losses" you incur through paying tax.
You pay tax to the government yet you don't even vote and think you're a big anarchist
I don't complain about 'debt' , I complain about the debt based monetary system.
You should know the difference ofc, so we'll put this down as another WUM fail.
NB libertarians can be left leaning or centralist, as indeed I am as I support TVP and anarcho-syndicalism which is most definitely not anarcho-capitalism so we can pop that down to another WUM fail too.
Also note that I pay sod all tax compared to most people as I'm self employed, I also don't need handouts. I grew out of that 30 years ago.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Forced into becoming more Democratic...
18 May 2013 21:10 #220
Trust me, Obama and Romney, and particularly the people that back them do view the general public as sheep. In fact, that's optimistic, they view them as statistics, a hive mind to be moulded, bacteria under a petri dish. They piss themselves as the public is absolutely robbed blind every day of their lives, and still over 98% of them turned out to vote for the two corporate candidates that were funded by investment banks. There may have been some excuse for this 20 years ago, but today all the information is out there. This is all completely documented. It's utterly uncontentious.
This is the wealth division in the US:
No-one could possibly even conceivably agree with that, unless they were part of the top 1%. This is the US foreign policy since 1945 (all funded by the public, of course, and all involving American citizens doing the killing and being killed):
IRAN 1946 Nuclear threat Soviet troops told to leave north.
YUGOSLAVIA 1946 Nuclear threat, naval Response to shoot-down of US plane.
URUGUAY 1947 Nuclear threat Bombers deployed as show of strength.
GREECE 1947-49 Command operation U.S. directs extreme-right in civil war.
GERMANY 1948 Nuclear Threat Atomic-capable bombers guard Berlin Airlift.
CHINA 1948-49 Troops/Marines evacuate Americans before Communist victory.
PHILIPPINES 1948-54 Command operation CIA directs war against Huk Rebellion.
PUERTO RICO 1950 Command operation Independence rebellion crushed in Ponce.
KOREA 1951-53 (-?) Troops, naval, bombing , nuclear threats U.S./So. Korea fights China/No. Korea to stalemate; A-bomb threat in 1950, and against China in 1953. Still have bases.
IRAN 1953 Command Operation CIA overthrows democracy, installs Shah.
VIETNAM 1954 Nuclear threat French offered bombs to use against seige.
GUATEMALA 1954 Command operation, bombing, nuclear threat CIA directs exile invasion after new gov't nationalized U.S. company lands; bombers based in Nicaragua.
EGYPT 1956 Nuclear threat, troops Soviets told to keep out of Suez crisis; Marines evacuate foreigners.
LEBANON l958 Troops, naval Army & Marine occupation against rebels.
IRAQ 1958 Nuclear threat Iraq warned against invading Kuwait.
CHINA l958 Nuclear threat China told not to move on Taiwan isles.
PANAMA 1958 Troops Flag protests erupt into confrontation.
VIETNAM l960-75 Troops, naval, bombing, nuclear threats Fought South Vietnam revolt & North Vietnam; one million killed in longest U.S. war; atomic bomb threats in l968 and l969.
CUBA l961 Command operation CIA-directed exile invasion fails.
GERMANY l961 Nuclear threat Alert during Berlin Wall crisis.
LAOS 1962 Command operation Military buildup during guerrilla war.
CUBA l962 Nuclear threat, naval Blockade during missile crisis; near-war with Soviet Union.
IRAQ 1963 Command operation CIA organizes coup that killed president, brings Ba'ath Party to power, and Saddam Hussein back from exile to be head of the secret service.
PANAMA l964 Troops Panamanians shot for urging canal's return.
INDONESIA l965 Command operation Million killed in CIA-assisted army coup.
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1965-66 Troops, bombing Army & Marines land during election campaign.
GUATEMALA l966-67 Command operation Green Berets intervene against rebels.
DETROIT l967 Troops Army battles African Americans, 43 killed.
UNITED STATES l968 Troops After King is shot; over 21,000 soldiers in cities.
CAMBODIA l969-75 Bombing, troops, naval Up to 2 million killed in decade of bombing, starvation, and political chaos.
OMAN l970 Command operation U.S. directs Iranian marine invasion.
LAOS l971-73 Command operation, bombing U.S. directs South Vietnamese invasion; "carpet-bombs" countryside.
SOUTH DAKOTA l973 Command operation Army directs Wounded Knee siege of Lakotas.
MIDEAST 1973 Nuclear threat World-wide alert during Mideast War.
CHILE 1973 Command operation CIA-backed coup ousts elected marxist president.
CAMBODIA l975 Troops, bombing Gassing of captured ship Mayagüez, 28 troops die when copter shot down.
ANGOLA l976-92 Command operation CIA assists South African-backed rebels.
IRAN l980 Troops, nuclear threat, aborted bombing Raid to rescue Embassy hostages; 8 troops die in copter-plane crash. Soviets warned not to get involved in revolution.
LIBYA l981 Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot down in maneuvers.
EL SALVADOR l981-92 Command operation, troops Advisors, overflights aid anti-rebel war, soldiers briefly involved in hostage clash.
NICARAGUA l981-90 Command operation, naval CIA directs exile (Contra) invasions, plants harbor mines against revolution.
LEBANON l982-84 Naval, bombing, troops Marines expel PLO and back Phalangists, Navy bombs and shells Muslim positions. 241 Marines killed when Shi'a rebel bombs barracks.
GRENADA l983-84 Troops, bombing Invasion four years after revolution.
HONDURAS l983-89 Troops Maneuvers help build bases near borders.
IRAN l984 Jets Two Iranian jets shot down over Persian Gulf.
LIBYA l986 Bombing, naval Air strikes to topple Qaddafi gov't.
BOLIVIA 1986 Troops Army assists raids on cocaine region.
IRAN l987-88 Naval, bombing US intervenes on side of Iraq in war, defending reflagged tankers and shooting down civilian jet.
LIBYA 1989 Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot down.
VIRGIN ISLANDS 1989 Troops St. Croix Black unrest after storm.
PHILIPPINES 1989 Jets Air cover provided for government against coup.
PANAMA 1989 (-?) Troops, bombing Nationalist government ousted by 27,000 soldiers, leaders arrested, 2000+ killed.
LIBERIA 1990 Troops Foreigners evacuated during civil war.
SAUDI ARABIA 1990-91 Troops, jets Iraq countered after invading Kuwait. 540,000 troops also stationed in Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Israel.
IRAQ 1990-91 Bombing, troops, naval Blockade of Iraqi and Jordanian ports, air strikes; 200,000+ killed in invasion of Iraq and Kuwait; large-scale destruction of Iraqi military.
KUWAIT 1991 Naval, bombing, troops Kuwait royal family returned to throne.
IRAQ 1991-2003 Bombing, naval No-fly zone over Kurdish north, Shiite south; constant air strikes and naval-enforced economic sanctions
LOS ANGELES 1992 Troops Army, Marines deployed against anti-police uprising.
SOMALIA 1992-94 Troops, naval, bombing U.S.-led United Nations occupation during civil war; raids against one Mogadishu faction.
YUGOSLAVIA 1992-94 Naval NATO blockade of Serbia and Montenegro.
BOSNIA 1993-? Jets, bombing No-fly zone patrolled in civil war; downed jets, bombed Serbs.
HAITI 1994 Troops, naval Blockade against military government; troops restore President Aristide to office three years after coup.
ZAIRE (CONGO) 1996-97 Troops Troops at Rwandan Hutu refugee camps, in area where Congo revolution begins.
LIBERIA 1997 Troops Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.
ALBANIA 1997 Troops Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.
SUDAN 1998 Missiles Attack on pharmaceutical plant alleged to be "terrorist" nerve gas plant.
AFGHANISTAN 1998 Missiles Attack on former CIA training camps used by Islamic fundamentalist groups alleged to have attacked embassies.
IRAQ 1998 Bombing, Missiles Four days of intensive air strikes after weapons inspectors allege Iraqi obstructions.
YUGOSLAVIA 1999 Bombing, Missiles Heavy NATO air strikes after Serbia declines to withdraw from Kosovo. NATO occupation of Kosovo.
YEMEN 2000 Naval USS Cole, docked in Aden, bombed.
MACEDONIA 2001 Troops NATO forces deployed to move and disarm Albanian rebels.
UNITED STATES 2001 Jets, naval Reaction to hijacker attacks on New York, DC
AFGHANISTAN 2001-? Troops, bombing, missiles Massive U.S. mobilization to overthrow Taliban, hunt Al Qaeda fighters, install Karzai regime, and battle Taliban insurgency. More than 30,000 U.S. troops and numerous private security contractors carry our occupation.
YEMEN 2002 Missiles Predator drone missile attack on Al Qaeda, including a US citizen.
PHILIPPINES 2002-? Troops, naval Training mission for Philippine military fighting Abu Sayyaf rebels evolves into combat missions in Sulu Archipelago, west of Mindanao.
COLOMBIA 2003-? Troops US special forces sent to rebel zone to back up Colombian military protecting oil pipeline.
IRAQ 2003-? Troops, naval, bombing, missiles Saddam regime toppled in Baghdad. More than 250,000 U.S. personnel participate in invasion. US and UK forces occupy country and battle Sunni and Shi'ite insurgencies. More than 160,000 troops and numerous private contractors carry out occupation and build large permanent bases.
LIBERIA 2003 Troops Brief involvement in peacekeeping force as rebels drove out leader.
HAITI 2004-05 Troops, naval Marines & Army land after right-wing rebels oust elected President Aristide, who was advised to leave by Washington.
PAKISTAN 2005-? Missiles, bombing, covert operation CIA missile and air strikes and Special Forces raids on alleged Al Qaeda and Taliban refuge villages kill multiple civilians. Drone attacks also on Pakistani Mehsud network.
SOMALIA 2006-? Missiles, naval, troops, command operation Special Forces advise Ethiopian invasion that topples Islamist government; AC-130 strikes, Cruise missile attacks and helicopter raids against Islamist rebels; naval blockade against "pirates" and insurgents.
SYRIA 2008 Troops Special Forces in helicopter raid 5 miles from Iraq kill 8 Syrian civilians
YEMEN 2009-? Missiles, command operation Cruise missile attack on Al Qaeda kills 49 civilians; Yemeni military assaults on rebels
LIBYA 2011-? Bombing, missiles, command operation NATO coordinates air strikes and missile attacks against Qaddafi government during uprising by rebel army.
Soon to be added, Syria, Iran and North Korea. Literally tens of billions of votes have been cast since then, we’ve seen every possible denomination of Democrat and Republican in every seat of US government. What has ever changed? The rich have got richer, the poor have got poorer, the US has become further indebted, the dollar has gone down the toilet:
Tens of millions killed needlessly, huge, insoluble debt that will never be paid back and will eventually bankrupt the US run up, fifty million people on food stamps. What’s the reaction?
I think I’ll vote Obama instead of Romney because he seems like the better option.
This is why the wealthy take the piss and piss themselves laughing behind closed doors (although, increasingly, they’re not even bothering to put forward remotely reasonable justification for their policies in public).
The true measure of a man is not his intelligence or how high he rises in this freak establishment. The true measure of a man is this: how quickly he can respond to the needs of others and how much of himself he can give - Philip K. Dick.
The EPA (environmental protection agency) and OSHA took air samples in the days following September 11th, they reported that they found no excessive levels of asbestos contrary to other findings....
With the anniversary of September 11th literally just around the corner, unanswered questions still remain for families who lost loved ones during the tragic event, as well as from families...
In 2008 the U.S. Supreme Court agreed to review a series of lower court rulings that restrict the United States Navy's use of sonar in submarine detection training exercises off...
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It's that simple eh?
you & Icke seem better suited to me.
