LesleyPumpshaft wrote:
We've been screwed over for thousands of years, nothings actually changed in that dept.

LesleyPumpshaft wrote: Except things like sustainable economies and cities, renewable energy sources and energy efficiency with good natural resource management.

Anyway, my concern isn't Polish people taking jobs anyway. It's overcrowding and the strain on infrastructure. I'm not talking about the abstract bigger picture, but the fact that it's going to have implications for people's real lives - especially things like housing and healthcare. What's wrong with pointing that out?

LesleyPumpshaft wrote:
Whats wrong with pointing out how it can be fixed instead of ignored?

LesleyPumpshaft wrote:
Nothing. Why are you in such a hurry to be persecuted?

Please don't swallow that "PC police are coming to getcha!" BS.

FYI

the UK ranks #51 for population density, behind Holland and Belgium

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_...y_population_density

and the US #178

andyh wrote:
I'm not ignoring it, just thinking about it at a local level. I'm wondering how it will change things and what it will mean for people already living here. For what it's worth, there are places round here that advertise for East Europeans for shitty jobs. If they paid better, they wouldn't be advertising saying they wanted East Europeans. It's mental. It's exploitation..

LesleyPumpshaft wrote:
It is indeed exploitation.
I wonder what the leaglities for specifying ethnicity in a job ad are.

LesleyPumpshaft wrote:
Local level = ignoring the problem.

The problem stems from imbalance, an artificial imbalance created by our masters to cause the very situation you gripe at today.
Like I said before, concentrating on Eastern Europeans causes people to forget about the outsourcing going on in China and India doesn't it?
After all...those people aren't living here are they? They're not polluting here either and they produce cheap goods to match your lower wages here don't they?

Its exploitation alright but of the entire planet not just the UK, you could close the border today and it won't change much
If anything it would be a bonus for politicians to pretend they're 'doing something'
They're not, they don't work for you, they don't represent you, NONE of them do.

Where is all the work in Poland or Estonia or Latvia or Lithuania or Romania? Where do the EU funds go? Where SHOULD they have gone and where was in intended to go originally and what were the original promises behind it all?

Don't get dragged into the petty stuff LP. You don't belong there.

You're right Andy. Can you imagine how expensive everything would be if it was produced over here?

Yesterday I was thinking. The horse meat did a good bit of travelling around Europe before ending up here, but it was still cheaper than British beef. How the hell can stuff be transported all over the place like that and still be cheaper than stuff that's farmed here? I was looking in the supermarket (evil places) and there was a deal for 2 packs of 10x bacon rashers for £4.00 (non British). The British bacon was £5.00 for 8x bacon rashers.

Sorry, I can't remember the point of this, but it's something to do with China, Europe and cheap goods in the UK.

Good post H, again the childerick are walking to follow their peers, who in turn walk upon others children, it seems not many realise what is happening, until its theirs not living in the paradise they could be.

The imbalance is manufactured, but if we simply walked away with our labour the models would eventually change.

andyh wrote:

LesleyPumpshaft wrote:

LesleyPumpshaft wrote:
That's the real issue isn't it?
The workers are not the problem, no matter their ethnic origin, The exploitative employers are the problem.

But as usual in this Orwellian fuck-up, the hatred and ire is redirected onto the ones being shafted.
They're to blame!

Changes in society and culture happen everyday. It's always been the way of things.
We'll adjust and get by. We always have and probably always will.

We have to stop falling for the "Fight each other" diversion pish though.

The Apprentice wrote:
Is pedestrian congestion in Lewisham that bad?

LesleyPumpshaft wrote:
Theres a myriad of reasons and you cannot point to 1 thing being responsible for the price difference.

Theres:
Labour costs
Production costs
Taxation costs
Delivery costs
Customs duty costs

But then there are on the opposing side govt subsidies for production of certain goods in certain areas and subsidies for transporting it and incentives and brown envelopes LP.

The world is a bloody complicated place and you sure as hell cannot point at a brit and say expensive wages and leave it summed up at that.
Just as it makes no sense to import coal from poland or even as far as australia when its sat there under the ground unused...the common excuse was 'oh the brits cost too much' if that was the case then why import it from australia?

The game is rigged
Everything they say is a lie.

LesleyPumpshaft wrote:
When it comes to supermarkets, they can be slippery in how they price things, so you cant always know exactly why one good is cheaper than another, it doesnt always come down to what price the supermarket purchased it at.

They can and do use a tactic called 'loss-leading' . Their profits are so high across the board that they can price goods of their choice below break even price, so they actually lose money on those items. They make up for it elsewhere.

What this does is harm volume of sales for similar products to the discounted item.

For example...If we assume the imported bacon is being sold at a discount, it wont be long before demand for local bacon drops off. Next stage is the local pig farms and processing plants shutting down, probably beginning with the smallest operations first, and the ones that arent PLC's and dont have access to other peoples money.

Imo they use these tactics to do damage to certain industries and push people out of production, although they will say its just 'marketing' and so on. I do personally believe there is more collusion between big food conglomerates and supermarkets than most people realise. Those out of the loop get the short end of the stick.

And now that you mention it, i have seen British MPs and people associated with them actually talking about piggeries and their evils. No doubt they are focusing on domestic operations... meanwhile people associated with said MPs are expanding their food corporations in China and India, using 2 buck a day labour, and it seems no one gives a shit about looking into how animals are farmed there.

novum wrote:

feather wrote:
What is the point of business?
PROFIT.
How do we expect them to behave?
If we put the taxes up what do you expect them to do?

All this stuff is ridiculously childishly simple and yet the media can play everyone along like the pied piper.

novum wrote:
And the big large corps have the ability to do this because its money they would otherwise be pissing away on the tax coffers.
Simple as.

andyh wrote:
www.richplanet.net/starship_main.php?ref=74&part=1

Turn off X Factor or our minds will be whistling dixie, or already are.