Quite so. The only way forward really is to address it without name-calling and sensationalism and try and get some accurate research and measurements into the mix.

This doesn't appear to be forthcoming however...which makes me even more paranoid and suspicious (if that's even possible at this point).

Ab Origine wrote:
I think the key is to identify the planes at the times concerned.
It'd need some serious optical gear to do that ofc

andyh wrote:
Indeed...all people really need to begin with however, is to start using these:



...and occasionally pointing them 'up'.

Nah, all you see is 'a plane'
Thats not good enough, IMHO these are more likely military flights or contractors.

Just thought, there's an app on phones that indentifies planes flying over. EG..it's the 4:23 from Alicante into Luton, and give's the plane's designated code ,or whatever. I know they could lie and just say it's another plane, BUT..wouldn't these plane-spotter guys know it was a lie ? I know one, i'll ask him......

jhado wrote:
Ask him about engines while youre at it...as in, how difficult exactly would it be to install something that anyone who deals with these things wouldn't really think twice about but that could potentially be used to pump shit out into the sky.

jhado wrote:
Hmm well it could be useful to exclude commercial flights perhaps?
As I'm willing to bet the planes concerned are ofc not commercial flights.

there are simple questions id like doubters to answer. as yet i have seen nothing that addresses them.
the first is...jet engines, unilke infernal combustions, are constant. the thrust is either there or it isnt. if it isnt, you have a big problem.
i get extended contrails, see them a lot. but, if the 'chemtrails' i see are in fact extended contrails, what is causing the regular pulsing within the trail that i so often see?

another question, with the same premise, what causes the black 'parallel' lines that are rare but not unseen by myself and many others?

Dubs, me and Jane were talking about the black lines on Sunday.

Have you seen the one in front of the plane? I have...........

knobmeup wrote:
That at least I'd guess is probably to do with vortices left by the planes wake, perhaps from the wings.

Its not so much all or nothing though, some planes do leave trails, some don't. Some leave short lasting trails, some long lasting.
I'd expect most trails to be left below a certain height too. I wouldn't expect a contrail at 30,000ft for example or higher but perhaps lower...

jhado wrote: yes i have jhads, i put a pic of one i took on here somewhere a while ago. tiz in me photobucket.

considering we are talking about gaseous states, i'd consider that answer if i saw anything resembling vortices andy

knobmeup wrote:
Well consider that the distance you are looking at all you can see is intermittent bulges or pulses in the trail. You can't actually see close up detail unless you were up there.

Also worth considering is what I said about altitude. If a plane is leaving a trail and its actually above 30,000ft then I'd put it to you that its not a contrail but most definitely a chemtrail. Again having some gear to test that out would be useful ofc

Air flight controllers would certainly know of non-commercial flights too and naturally they would be the people to ask how often it goes on and what they've noticed.

Planes that leave contrails don't make pretty patterns in the sky.

The sprayers make criss crosses in the sky.......

andy, i dont need owt but me mince pies and a reasonable grasp of simple physics
what i am asking are 2 simple physics questions. your effort was one of the mor creative, kudos for that. but you aint even close old fruit
there is no scientifically acceptable explanation that doesnt involve more tech than jet engines. that is unless our collective idea of simple physics is the thing in error. yet the world has conformed with these notions observably and empiricaly for a good long while.

knobmeup wrote:
I've only answered the first question which is about the frequent lumps in contrails, they do not have to be created by the jet engines at all, vortices in the wake can and do displace air and often at seemingly 'rhythmic' intervals. Then ofc there's air movement from other causes...although I'd expect that to be much more random. Bear in mind the whole airframe is oscillating during flight.

As for the black line thing, I'm not sure what you mean there so no idea, soz.

Also again, no-one talks of type of planes or altitude, just what they 'see' or someone else 'sees' and often after the plane is long gone.
This makes nailing things down very difficult to say the least, unlike fractional reserve banking

jhado wrote:
Me too...only seen it once but I'm right under Heathrow and that's where I saw it. Only the once mind, and one single plane. Never again before or since.

Here yar Andy, I took this photo of a black line last year. It's not the clearest pic but it's good enough.
The plane is alongside the black dot. Note that the line extends forward of the plane, to the horizon.

Regarding your vortice theory for the puffs. Sorry but it's guff.
Here is a vid of the effect you describe:

You can clearly see the wing tip vortices. However this effect is nothing like the pulsing I am describing. Any wingtip capable of causing the effect I see would render the plane incapable of flight. The oscillations would be huge. Besides, as I said before, I see no sign of any vortice activity in the trails.

About 10 years ago, whilst I was living in Devon, I met a man who was ex-RAF. His job in the RAF was flight control. He brought chemtrails to my attention, not just by pointing up to the skies, but by telling me about the planes that take off loaded with these noxious chemicals. Shortly after I introduced him to my then boyfriend, also ex-RAF, he was a main frame fitter, their conversation was VERY interesting.

Their info/conclusion is that whoever they are are spraying the atmosphere for whatever reasons best known to themselves, they are doing it. I would like to point out that both these guys are now in their 50's (one is just 60) and have been around long enough and in the military at a time when we the public were not so aware of these shenanigans.

Since then I have discussed this topic with all manner of people from scientists to conspiracy theorists.
Yesterday, at a carboot, it was twilight, and I noticed them starting to chemtrail. They started in the distanc, 4 of them starting at a central point and then fanned out, over my head and then off into the distance. I have seen this 'formation' on several occasions. They then proceeded, aided by other planes to form the horrendous criss cross patterns that we see. I watched these planes as I always do when they are spraying en-mass. You could actually see these planes stopping spraying, turning around and coming back to lay another trail across the one they had just put down. It doesn't matter one jot to me whether people believe they are contrails or chemtrails, all I know is, planes either military or commercial don't go playing naughts and crosses in the sky with each other, they go from A to B. End of.

They are at it again today.


Jane

knobmeup wrote:


^Thats the effect I'm talking about. The oscillations do not have to be huge, you merely have to wait is all.
That plane is at low altitude btw, perhaps preparing to land.

As for the black dot, still no idea, I've not seen that before.