Its also worth noting btw that planes without jet engines can and do make contrails.
So there's exhaust contrails and wingtip trails.
Also that at different altitudes and temps contrails can appear and disappear yet the plane not change throttle.
Also note that trails can be as much as 100 miles off and still easily visible, especially if they spread out.
Good vid from 1980 here for batou so this dates people noticing it in 1980
EDIT: I don't want ppl thinking I'm saying chemtrails don't exist btw, they definitely do exist. Simply that there are obviously different types of trails and how best to identify them.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
Here yar Andy, I took this photo of a black line last year. It's not the clearest pic but it's good enough.
The plane is alongside the black dot. Note that the line extends forward of the plane, to the horizon.
.
Even with the image at full size, I can't see any plane at the point you indicate it should be but I do see an ickle baby rainbow being born over on the left.
Dawwww.
Could the black line maybe be a tow rope?
*May not be helping*
its there feather, i was led on me back and watched the plane come from behind, over my head and forward. it continued on the same path after the pic.
andy, yes no-one is suggesting all trails are chem.
"laws are unenforceable if the majority break them."-humanspirit,
"avoid the concept of an ambassador for truth altogether"-gilly.
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06 Oct 2013 10:29 #46
Surely any number of interference pattern causes could bring about changes to the contrail. Temperature variations, wind fluctuations, sonic resonance could all create currents.
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06 Oct 2013 10:36 #47
btw I am not contesting the claim that they are spraying chemtrails.
As already mooted though, it's solid empirical, peer appraised, evidence that's required there.
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06 Oct 2013 10:39 #48
Surely any number of interference pattern causes could bring about changes to the contrail. Temperature variations, wind fluctuations, sonic resonance could all create currents.
Correct yep. So a trail that appears broken or pulsed does not automatically infer that its a chemtrail.
We do have news articles admitting cloud seeding (this again could be something different from chemtrails) but no pictures of the actual cloud seeding trails.
So what we're left with, is people getting paranoid about any trails they see.
IMHO if a plane was putting out chemicals, we might not even be able to see it at all....
The whole topic is completely screwed basically, again thats why I prefer even 911, especially WTC7 as a topic for conspiracy theory or better still fractional reserve banking because there's so much evidence for it, its no longer conspiracy theory, its 100% factual.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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06 Oct 2013 10:40 #49
btw I am not contesting the claim that they are spraying chemtrails.
As already mooted though, it's solid empirical, peer appraised, evidence that's required there.
Bingo.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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06 Oct 2013 11:17 #50
Please indulge me while I attempt to fill in some of my basic ignorance on this topic.
What is the 'pulsing' thought to be indicative/evidence of?
A propulsion mechanism for the 'chems'?
Why would an 'open-valve' system not be adequate for the function? (The type of process used for fuel dumping and crop spraying etc).
What 'chem(s)' are being dumped?
What evidence is available?
Is there a known range of chems and a distribution map of what/where?
I'm really not being contentious here. I don't know these things.
I am trying to be objective though.
If they are simply blanket dropping tonnes of Shake 'n Vac over host towns to Tory party conferences to get rid of the smell of shit, then I'm all for it.
EDIT: I don't want ppl thinking I'm saying chemtrails don't exist btw, they definitely do exist. Simply that there are obviously different types of trails and how best to identify them.
I think those on here who accept that chemtrails are real, have already established how to tell the difference, otherwise there wouldn't be this perpetual discussion about the subject. Apropo my enlarged and bolded bit, instead of being argumentative as per the rest of your posts, why don't you show the evidence that proved to you that chemtrail spraying is going on then please?
There is one very simple way of telling if a contrail or chemtrail is forming.....as per RAF pointing it out to me. There will always be a gap between the plane and the CONTRAIL forming, however there will be little to no gap between a plane and a CHEMTRAIL.
Hmm well it could be useful to exclude commercial flights perhaps?
As I'm willing to bet the planes concerned are ofc not commercial flights
AndyH
Think of it the other way round......the military have access to all the commercial flights, so know exactly where all aviation is at any given time/altitude etc. Commercial airlines have no idea when a Typhoon is going to appear on the wing tip of their Ryanair!!!
another question, with the same premise, what causes the black 'parallel' lines that are rare but not unseen by myself and many others?
Knobmeup
After my earlier posting, I was out and heading up the motorway towards Liverpool. Bugger me if there wasn't one of these there, right in front of me! Now I have seen but only once, a black trail....but never until this morning a white, going back trail. I tried taking a photo with my phone, but it's ancient so not very good, and I then realised I can't transfer it onto here.
What 'chem(s)' are being dumped?
What evidence is available?
Is there a known range of chems and a distribution map of what/where?
Most of those questions are answered in the documentary What in the World are they spraying, which I'm sure you must have watched, no?
The Americans were experimenting quite successfully with 'cloud seeding' during the Vietnam war....so chemtrailing goes way back to the '60's.
Operation Popeye (Project Popeye/Motorpool/Intermediary-Compatriot) was a US military cloud seeding operation (running from March 20, 1967 until July 5, 1972) during the Vietnam war to extend the monsoon season over Laos, specifically areas of the Ho Chi Minh Trail. The operation seeded clouds with silver iodide, resulting in the targeted areas seeing an extension of the monsoon period an average of 30 to 45 days. As the continuous rainfall slowed down the truck traffic, it was considered relatively successful.[1] The 54th Weather Reconnaissance Squadron carried out the operation to "make mud, not war." [2]
The resultant rain and subsequent flooding of the nearby Song Con River is sometimes blamed for the move of POWs from the prison camp at Son Tay and therefore, the failure of Operation Ivory Coast.[3]
But before we go blamming the Yanks for being the 'inventors and forerunners of chemtrails....look further back and closer to home
In Britain, it has been alleged that before the devastating Lynmouth floods in Devon in 1952, the RAF had been conducting secret rain-making tests. Aircraft showered clouds with silver iodide, on which water droplets formed, became heavy and eventually fell to the ground as rain. In the next 12 hours nine inches of rain fell – 250 times the normal amount for August – and 35 people were killed.
Former North Devon MP Tony Speller, then a 22-year-old soldier who helped in the relief effort, sought answers from the MoD.
“I have no doubt they were seeding in the area because there were RAF log books to prove it, ” he says now. “Of course the MoD denied any knowledge but that is not to say it did not happen.”
Speller, now 76, adds: “I doubt we will ever know the truth.”
www.globalresearch.ca/weather-war/1061
There's a lot more about 'ecological warfare' right down to triggering earthquakes and controlling hurricanes in that article.
For those who don't want to read, here's a short film
What started nearly 100 years ago with the earliest cloud seeding experiments has developed into a wide range of technologies as different eras have presented different challenges. The last few Mud Reports have concentrated on global warming, regardless of its causes, as the main driver of our current era's extreme weather events. Understanding this full well, research by the military and corporations has concentrated on 'getting ahead of curve'. Consequently Solar Radiation Management [SRM], Stratospheric Aerosols, Geo-Engineering, Climate Engineering have all evolved as offshoots of cloud seeding research and development throughout the decades.
In 1990 the idea of spraying aluminum oxide from jet aircraft was patented by Hughes Aircraft. The plan proposed to seed the metallic particles was to add the tiny particles to the fuel of jet airliners, so that the particles would be emitted from the jet engine exhaust while the airliner was at its cruising altitude.
SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION: Patent #5003186
A method is disclosed for reducing atmospheric warming due to the greenhouse effect resulting from a greenhouse gases layer. The method comprises the step of seeding the greenhouse gas layer with a quantity of tiny particles of materials characterized by wavelength-dependent emissivity or reflectivity, in that said materials have high emissivities in the visible and far infrared wavelength regions and low emissivity in the near infrared wavelength region. Such materials can include the class of materials known as Welsbach materials. The oxides of metal, e.g., aluminum oxide, are also suitable for the purpose. The greenhouse gases layer typically extends between about seven and thirteen kilometers above the earth's surface. The seeding of the stratosphere occurs within this layer. The particles suspended in the stratosphere as a result of the seeding provide a mechanism for converting the blackbody radiation emitted by the earth at near infrared wavelengths into radiation in the visible and far infrared wavelength so that this heat energy may be reradiated out into space, thereby reducing the global warming due to the greenhouse effect."
I don't think anyone here has actually given it much thought beyond whats already shown in conspiracy media angel.
For example, did you know that most chemicals in aerosol format are invisible? Why for that matter should we associate visible plane trails with chemical dispersant?
Chemical shelling for example is often completely undetectable except by special equipment.
You're also making assumptions about me being argumentative
The evidence that chemicals have been used at altitude has already been mentioned in my previous post, the german and chinese news reports remember?
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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06 Oct 2013 17:33 #56
I don't think anyone here has actually given it much thought beyond whats already shown in conspiracy media angel.
I think they have.
For example, did you know that most chemicals in aerosol format are invisible? Why for that matter should we associate visible plane trails with chemical dispersant?
Yes I do, hence the reason why they put stuff IN some aerosols so you know WHERE your spraying.... Get it?
Chemical shelling for example is often completely undetectable except by special equipment.
You're also making assumptions about me being argumentative Nope...you're doing it again, avoiding answering a perfectly polite and reasonable question I asked based on what you wrote
andyh wrote:
EDIT: I don't want ppl thinking I'm saying chemtrails don't exist btw, they definitely do exist. Simply that there are obviously different types of trails and how best to identify them.
I think those on here who accept that chemtrails are real, have already established how to tell the difference, otherwise there wouldn't be this perpetual discussion about the subject. Apropo my enlarged and bolded bit, instead of being argumentative as per the rest of your posts, why don't you show the evidence that proved to you that chemtrail spraying is going on then please?
Jane
"love it better"
the more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war
Why would they need to see what they're spraying? lol :p
If it was a weapon why would you want the enemy to see it?
Also I didn't avoid the question, I'll answer it again a 2nd time for you here, the German and Chinese news reports both mentioned cloud seeding, everyones seen them on DIF several times as well as Alex Jones etc.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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06 Oct 2013 19:32 #58
The main difference that can be seen with the eye is the way the stuff that is visible reacts. Contrails seem to dissipate quite quickly depending on the weather/temp. Even if they stick around for a while, they usually just hang where they are and then disappear.
People are noticing that these trails, whatever they may be, are behaving quite differently in that they just don't appear to dissipate at all and sit there indefinitely. I've seen it myself where they start out fairly ordinary looking but just stay there and start to spread, particularly when you see the criss-crossing others have mentioned.
Eventually, they all weave together to form a blanket.
Thinking about it a bit more, it does lend credence to the weather manipulation theory or perhaps for some reason best known to 'themselves', shielding the earth from solar effects?
What we are today comes from our thoughts of yesterday, and our present thoughts build our life of tomorrow: Our life is the creation of our mind.
The main difference that can be seen with the eye is the way the stuff that is visible reacts. Contrails seem to dissipate quite quickly depending on the weather/temp. Even if they stick around for a while, they usually just hang where they are and then disappear.
People are noticing that these trails, whatever they may be, are behaving quite differently in that they just don't appear to dissipate at all and sit there indefinitely. I've seen it myself where they start out fairly ordinary looking but just stay there and start to spread, particularly when you see the criss-crossing others have mentioned.
Eventually, they all weave together to form a blanket.
Thinking about it a bit more, it does lend credence to the weather manipulation theory or perhaps for some reason best known to 'themselves', shielding the earth from solar effects?
Correct.
Heres the killer...cloud seeding is meant to disperse clouds, not make clouds.
Eg from wikipedia:
Cloud seeding is a common technique to enhance precipitation. Evidence on its safety is strong,[citation needed] but there are still doubts about its effectiveness. Cloud seeding entails spraying small particles, such as aluminium oxide, barium, or silver iodide onto clouds in order to affect their development, usually with the goal of increasing precipitation. Cloud seeding only works to the extent that there is already water vapor present in the air. Critics generally contend that claimed successes occur in conditions which were going to lead to rain anyway. It is used in a variety of drought-prone countries, including the United States, the People's Republic of China, India, and Russia. In the People's Republic of China there is a perceived dependency upon it in dry regions, and there is a strong suspicion it is used to "wash the air" in dry and heavily polluted places, such as Beijing. In mountainous areas of the United States such as the Rocky Mountains and Sierra Nevada,[10] cloud seeding has been employed since the 1950s.
So this is a totally ADMITTED thing thats going on, no conspiracy there.
What feather asked above has still yet to be answered and tbh I've yet to see the actual chems identified either or for that matter specifically associated with 'contrails' as such.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
The reason I ask about the pulses feather is cos I wanna know. Not because I have a preconceived answer waiting.
I observe that the trails which spread in the manner of the classic 'chemtrail' often have these regular pulsing puffs in them, whereas the contrails I see, do not. Andy has given a potential explanation, one which doesn't convince me. Like yourselves, I'd also like empirical evidence to show me what causes it.
I think all the talk of intentional poisoning etc is rather silly personally. My gut tells me this involves a combination of motives.
The predominant candidate being climate manipulation to my mind.
"laws are unenforceable if the majority break them."-humanspirit,
"avoid the concept of an ambassador for truth altogether"-gilly.
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