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TOPIC: Ukraine gas and guess who.

Ukraine gas and guess who. 29 Mar 2014 18:18 #421

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:roll: and there you have it in a nutshell...thank you Mikey. :thumbup:

:jane:
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the more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 29 Mar 2014 19:24 #422

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Thanks Jane.

:)
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 30 Mar 2014 02:46 #423

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Ukraine gas and guess who. 30 Mar 2014 13:34 #424

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Elsewhere I was challenged to give what I saw as a Russian perspective on these events:

This was part of my answer:

Let's start with how they feel about American rhetoric: Hillary Clinton said that Putin’s concern for Russians in Ukraine is like Hitler’s concern for Germans in Poland and Czechoslovakia.

Now considering the cost to Russia of defeating Hitler, especially when compared to the cost to the USA, that is clearly intended as a direct insult and
In fact, Lavrov said in a statement:
"“Inviting us to [engage in] dialogue and pledging to us their commitment to facilitate the stabilization of the situation, our partners are not being fully consistent, as simultaneously, speaking at international forums, including the UN General Assembly, they encourage very confrontational and quarrelsome statements, which border on insults and clearly do not promote the right atmosphere for normal dialogue. This ambivalence and duplicity is very obstructive.”

In fact Hillary demonstrated either extreme ignorance of the facts or demonstrated an Orwellian level of doublethink: 90% of all Nazi German casualties were killed by Soviets. As Russia sees it, America didn't win the war. Russia did. And they also lost 30 million people in the process. America lost nothing by comparison.

In fact throughout history, Turks, Poles, Swedes, French, Germans, British, and Japanese have each invaded Russia more than once.

That might make them slightly defensive.

Lets look at how they might remember their 170 year history in Crimea: At the 2-year Siege of Sevastopol in 1854, 175,000 British, French, Turkish, German, Italian, Polish and Swiss soldiers faced 35,000 Russian soldiers who defended Russian Crimea. Then in WW2 at the Siege of Sevastopol there was a year long siege with more than 200,000 German, Romanian, Italian and Bulgarian forces facing 106,000 Soviet soldiers who defended Russian Crimea.

That might explain the pride Crimean Russians have about being Russian.

And how did Crimea ened up Russian in the first place? Wikipedia tells us:

The area remained the site of overlapping interests and contact between the early medieval Slavic, Turkic and Greek spheres, and became a center of slave trade in particular, the word slave itself deriving from the ethnonym of the Slavs who were sold to the Muslim world and Byzantium during this period. In the 1230s, this status quo was swept away by the Mongol invasions, and Crimea was incorporated into the territory of the Golden Horde throughout the 14th century.
The Crimean Khanate, a state ruled by Crimean Tatars and generally subject to the Ottoman Empire, succeeded the Golden Horde and lasted from 1441 to 1783.[8] Until the late 18th century, Crimean Tatars maintained a massive slave trade with the Ottoman Empire, exporting about 2 million slaves from Russia and Ukraine over the period 1500–1700.[9] The Khanate was conquered by the Russian Empire under Catherine the Great in 1783. From 1853 to 1856, the peninsula was the site of the principal engagements of the Crimean War, a conflict fought between the Russian Empire and an alliance of France, Britain, the Ottoman Empire, and Sardinia..


BTW the population never asked to be part of Ukraine. But they did ask to be part of Russia.
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Last Edit: 30 Mar 2014 13:43 by mikey mikey.
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 31 Mar 2014 01:19 #425

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mikey mikey wrote:
A few questions I put to a neocon elsewhere:

Did you think Putin was going to sit by, while a right wing fascist government was installed, with US help, on Russia's border?

Did you think he would give up Russia's only warm water port (i.e. Sevaspol in Crimea) and have the Russian Navy checkmated by the US and its access to the Mediterranean effectively blocked? Really? With the situation in Syria and Iran as it is?

Did you know that Crimea was Russian before it was Ukrainian and that it was Kruschev (a Ukrainian ) who made it part of the Ukraine?


Why did the Crimean vote to join Russia by over 95% while, according to international observers, 135 international observers have arrived from 23 countries, say there was no coercion?

How does a vessel get out of the Black Sea and into the Mediterranean ?
This is where my bottom line would be if it existed.
Last Edit: 31 Mar 2014 01:20 by Blue_Tackler.
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 31 Mar 2014 10:38 #426

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Blue_Tackler wrote:
mikey mikey wrote:
A few questions I put to a neocon elsewhere:

Did you think Putin was going to sit by, while a right wing fascist government was installed, with US help, on Russia's border?

Did you think he would give up Russia's only warm water port (i.e. Sevaspol in Crimea) and have the Russian Navy checkmated by the US and its access to the Mediterranean effectively blocked? Really? With the situation in Syria and Iran as it is?

Did you know that Crimea was Russian before it was Ukrainian and that it was Kruschev (a Ukrainian ) who made it part of the Ukraine?


Why did the Crimean vote to join Russia by over 95% while, according to international observers, 135 international observers have arrived from 23 countries, say there was no coercion?

How does a vessel get out of the Black Sea and into the Mediterranean ?

Through the Bosphorus straight by Turkey

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosphorus
Stay Happy
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Apr 2014 19:34 #427

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Meet the new press-secretary of ukrainian neonazis of Prawy Sektor: Olena Semenyaka

1534372 687409061315453 392770977 N
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Apr 2014 19:36 #428

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:barfonu:
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Apr 2014 19:41 #429

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Well she's not a NaN! (remember the 2 negatives rule ;))

BkNEDh3IMAEnj0z
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Apr 2014 20:42 #430

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Hands up who agrees that after it's latest bout of warmongering rhetoric...
Nato can go fuck itself with a spikey stick.

These cunts do not speak for me. They have gone waaaaaaaaay too far with the bullshit.
I suggest we put em in a field and bomb the bastards.
"laws are unenforceable if the majority break them."-humanspirit,
"avoid the concept of an ambassador for truth altogether"-gilly.
Last Edit: 03 Apr 2014 20:44 by dubmeup.
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Apr 2014 20:45 #431

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dubmeup wrote:
Hands up who agrees that after it's latest bout of warmongering rhetoric...
Nato can go fuck itself with a spikey stick.

These cunts do not speak for me. They have gone waaaaaaaaay too far with the bullshit.
I suggest we put em in a field and bomb the bastards.

OK..*dons blond wig* who's wm?

:jane:

Booger...you edited as I was replying! :D

Now I know...I agree :thumbup:
"love it better"
the more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war
Last Edit: 03 Apr 2014 20:48 by angelchemuel. Reason: Answering dubs question which I failed to do after removing blond wig! :)
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Apr 2014 20:48 #432

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Twas the old big fingers, small fone routine, jane. Sorry
"laws are unenforceable if the majority break them."-humanspirit,
"avoid the concept of an ambassador for truth altogether"-gilly.
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Apr 2014 20:50 #433

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Tis OK matey....not my reasons for editing my post ;) :)
:jane:

PS....fook...done it myself now! :D ....not = note! :killinme:
"love it better"
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Last Edit: 03 Apr 2014 20:51 by angelchemuel.
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Apr 2014 21:13 #434

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dubmeup wrote:
big fingers, small fone

A nudge is as good as a wink.

Say no more.
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Apr 2014 21:53 #435

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angelchemuel wrote:
dubmeup wrote:
Hands up who agrees that after it's latest bout of warmongering rhetoric...
Nato can go fuck itself with a spikey stick.

These cunts do not speak for me. They have gone waaaaaaaaay too far with the bullshit.
I suggest we put em in a field and bomb the bastards.

OK..*dons blond wig* who's wm?

:jane:

Booger...you edited as I was replying! :D

Now I know...I agree :thumbup:

My hand's up. Dubs.

Us blondes strongly suggest that you drop the dumb blonde comments, Ms Rainbows. :shlap:
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Apr 2014 22:29 #436

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Gilly wrote:

My hand's up Dubs.

:nervous:
Us blondes strongly suggest that you drop the dumb blonde comments, Ms Rainbows. :shlap:

Ladies, if you really must resort to such base levels of argument please sort it out in a gelatine based piscine environment.
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 04 Apr 2014 18:44 #437

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Russian ambassadors 'joked about annexing Scotland'
The war of dirty tricks over the Ukraine crisis escalated on Friday with the leak of a conversation purporting to be of two Russian ambassadors joking about adding Scotland, Alaska, and Venice to Russia’s conquest of Crimea.
The expletive ridden conversation posted on Youtube features two voices said to be Igor Chubarov, the ambassador to Eritrea, and Sergei Bakharev, the ambassador to Zimbabwe and Malawi.
The voice labelled as Mr Chubarov’s congratulates Mr Bakharev on persuading Zimbabwe to back Russia’s position on Crimea at the UN, and goes on to joke about telling a European diplomat about future conquests.
“We’ve got Crimea, but that’s not ----ing all, folks. In the future we’ll take you ----ing Catalonia, Venice, as well as Scotland and Alaska,” the voice says.
The pair go on to add Miami and London to their hit list, noting that "Miamiland' is ----ing 95 percent Russian citizens."
The YouTube posting follows the leaks of at least two embarrassing conversations involving European and American officials that US officials have blamed on the Russian intelligence services.
The latest recording has not been authenticated. Maria Zakharova, a foreign ministry spokeswoman, said on her Facebook page that she did not know who was speaking, but said one of the photographs on the video was actually of another ambassador who died a year ago.
She also criticised the subtitles for substituting a single English expletive for much fruitier and varied Russian expressions.
American fast food chains meanwhile became a new front in the deepening diplomatic crisis between the United States and Russia after a firebrand MP called for every McDonald’s restaurant in the country to be closed.
Vladimir Zhirinovsky, the leader of Russia’s Liberal Democratic party, said his members would picket McDonald’s across the country and seek to get all of the over 400 outlets in Russia closed in response to what he called an attempt to “punish” Russia for the annexation of Crimea.
The unlikely turn of events came after McDonalds, which runs over 400 restaurants in Russia, said it was temporarily closing its three outlets in Crimea.
The company, which runs three restaurants in Simferopol, Sevastopol, and Yalta, said in a statement on Friday that they would be closing temporarily for “manufacturing reasons” beyond the company’s control.
While the company promised to reopen the restaurants as soon as possible, its also offered its Crimean staff jobs at any other outlets in mainland Ukraine, suggesting it does not expect to return to business as usual in the foreseeable future.
“McDonalds closed their outlets in Crimea. Very well. We’ll close the rest. I’ve given instructions to all city divisions of the Liberal Democratic Party to hold pickets at every McDonalds,” Mr Zhirinovsky said on Friday.
“It’s muck, why poison our citizens?” Mr Zhirinovsky added in the outburst.
McDonalds opened its first outlet in Moscow in 1991, and by last year it had over 400 restaurants across the country.
While Mr Zhirinovsky is widely views as the court jester of Russian politics, his trademark outbursts are occasionally used as trial balloons for schemes that do eventually become policy.
And he signalled that once he had dealt with McDonalds, other iconic American food brands may also have to watch out, adding: “then we’ll deal with Pepsi.”
McDonalds is the second foreign company to suspend operations in Crimea since its formal annexation by Russia last month.
On Thursday Deutsche Post, the German postal company, said it was no longer accepting letters for Crimea because delivery to the region could not be guaranteed.
The announcement came as Angela Merkel sought to distance herself from comments by her veteran finance minister, Wolfgang Schauble, comparing Vladimir Putin’s take over of Crimea with Hitler’s invasion of the Sudetenland in 1938.
Mr Schauble, a member of Mrs Merkel’s Christian Democratic Union, made the comparison during a conversation with Berlin school children earlier this week.
“We know this from history. Hitler used such methods in Sudetenland – and a lot more,” he told them.
The comments caused fury in Moscow, where the Crimean adventure has been cast as a move to save the region from fascism.
The Russian Foreign Ministry summoned the German ambassador to complain on Thursday, describing the comments as a “pseudo-historical excursion” and “a crude distortion of historical events and facts.”
In Germany the leader of the country’s Left Party, Bernd Reixinger demanded that Mr Schauble apologise to Russia for his “ tasteless” remarks. Ralf Stegner, a senior Social Democrat MP described the finance minister’s comparison as “ definitely not useful”.
Chancellor Merkel has said that the annexation of Crimea is in clear breach of international law. However she has distanced herself from Mr Schauble’s comparision and insisted that it is an action which “stands for itself.”
Mr Schauble told the German television channel ARD on Thursday: “ I am not so stupid as to compare someone with Hitler.” He said his remarks had been quoted “in isolation” and out of context.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europ...nexing-Scotland.html
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 04 Apr 2014 19:01 #438

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www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/04/ru...-alaska-annex-crimea

Comments section is a hoot! : :killinme: : nobody is buying it!

"See, the UK needs to stay together ot it will enf up like Crimea: vote no. [/neo-con press]
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Last Edit: 04 Apr 2014 19:01 by mikey mikey.
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 04 Apr 2014 19:06 #439

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RQr79Ld
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 05 Apr 2014 00:18 #440

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angelchemuel wrote:
:roll: and there you have it in a nutshell...thank you Mikey. :thumbup:

:jane:

Really :killinme:

Somebody who thinks blackwater is operating in the country has a finger on the pulse :killinme:

Is there a counter revolution and the :anar: is flying :seanypat ...think the population who reside in the country know the score :cavalier
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