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TOPIC: Ukraine gas and guess who.

Ukraine gas and guess who. 27 Mar 2014 17:20 #401

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We did not grab its resources for our own gain.
That is technically correct. They grabbed their resources for someone else's gain.
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 27 Mar 2014 17:27 #402

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That government (in Ukraine) is conducting extraordinary propaganda against Russia, claiming that Russian troops are massed on the border and are going to invade Ukraine. So they are creating this image which helps foment war. Here’s the great danger in all of this....

“What does this do to Putin? Putin has been very low key. He’s been very diplomatic. He sits there and watches this and he says:

“What are these Americans up to? Here they bring a direct strategic threat to Russia, right here in my backyard. They are trying to put Ukraine in Nato so they can put missile bases on the Russian border with Ukraine. They tried to grab Russia’s only warm-water naval base, the port we’ve had since Catherine the Great in the 18th century. Why are they doing this? Why these amazing provocations against Russia?”

... So that’s what the idiots in Washington have brought about. They’ve convinced a nuclear power that can wipe the United States off the face of the Earth, and certainly Europe, that they cannot be trusted.

They’ve made it impossible for the Russian government to work with them. They are demonizing Russia, trying to isolate it, trying to punish it for doing nothing -- except not collapsing before American aggression. And so what can he (Putin) do? Prepare for war. This is extremely dangerous.

Any government that is so reckless as Washington is, to create this impression in the government of a strategic nuclear power, any government that would do this is insane. This is a form of recklessness and irresponsibility on the part of the Obama regime and its European puppets that is insane. The whole world is at stake.”

Eric King: “What about Russia’s relationship with China? That’s strengthening and they seem to be aligning against the West. Is China with Russia?”

Dr. Roberts: “China realizes it has the same enemy that Russia has -- it’s Washington. Washington is doing the same thing to China. The pivot to Asia is the construction of all these new American naval and air bases, in order to surround China and to control the flow of resources through the South China Sea.

China can see clearly that this is directed at them, despite the fact that the United States announces periodically, ‘This has nothing to do with China.’ What does it have to do with? (laughter ensues) What does the United States need these naval and air bases in the South China Sea for, except to interfere with China?

So China sees that. And they see the lies -- No one believes the account given of the Ukraine, outside the United States and parts of Western Europe. Nobody else in the world believes a word of it. China can see Russia is being set up as the bad guy. In fact, they (China) have spoken out in favor of Russia.

I think the same thing will happen with India and Brazil. So you will see a quicker formation of the BRIC’s, and a quicker move toward leaving the dollar, and creating their own separate international monetary system. This will then reduce the financial imperialism of Washington because it will exclude half the population of the world.”

Dr. Roberts added: “Obama is now ridiculing Russia, saying they are ‘weak.’ Why do you want to gratuitously offend a militarily powerful country for? What is the purpose of it? It shows that the President of the United States is not fit to be in office. He doesn’t have enough sense to be there. He’s dangerous. He’s provoking confrontation that could blow the whole world up.”
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 27 Mar 2014 20:38 #403

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wake_up_bomb wrote:
We did not grab its resources for our own gain.
That is technically correct. They grabbed their resources for someone else's gain.

Well, until you look at who owns those companies and who they pay lobby contributions too. :coffee:
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 27 Mar 2014 20:41 #404

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hugorune wrote:
So Barry says "we ended our war and left Iraq to its people in a fully sovereign Iraqi state that can make decisions about its own future."

And if the government in Iraq tells the US to remove its military bases then the US will comply with this decision? :think:

He's also kinda said that by US standards Russia is free to stay in Crimea for 10 years or until the "asymmetric threat" is over (i.e. whenever)
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 28 Mar 2014 14:29 #405

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I was curious to find out if Ukraine had any gold bullion :roll:

As you are aware when criminals gain power they strip all assets very quickly.

Anyway i found this-
Ukraine’s Gold Reserves Secretely Flown Out and Confiscated by the New York Federal Reserve?

Michel Chossudovsky (CRG) : A Russian Internet news site Iskra (“Spark”) based in Zaporozhye, eastern Ukraine, reported on March 7, that “Ukraine’s gold reserves had been hastily airlifted to the United States from Borispol Airport east of Kiev”. This alleged airlift and confiscation of Ukraine’s gold reserves by the New York Federal Reserve has not been confirmed by the Western media.

LINK TO FULL STORY

I can't open the link to the original source of information which is Iskra News.

Does this mean the criminals are blocking it?
naivety attracts evil and evil attracts naivety
Last Edit: 28 Mar 2014 14:32 by humanspirit.
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 28 Mar 2014 15:41 #406

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Heres a link to another article on Ukraine's Gold:

The Latest Heist: US Quietly Snatches the Ukraine’s Gold Reserves
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 28 Mar 2014 15:51 #407

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Ukraine's interim government says it will raise gas prices for domestic consumers by 50% in an effort to secure an International Monetary Fund (IMF) aid package.

An official at Ukraine's Naftogaz state energy company said the price rise would take effect on 1 May, and further rises would be scheduled until 2018.

Ukrainians are accustomed to buying gas at heavily subsidised rates.

But the IMF has made subsidy reform a condition of its deal.

Ukraine currently buys more than half of its natural gas from Russia's Gazprom, and then sells it on to consumers at below market prices.

Yury Kolbushkin, budget and planning director at Naftogaz, told reporters that gas prices for district heating companies would also rise by 40% from 1 July.

IMF negotiators are still in Kiev to negotiate a package of measures worth billions of dollars to help Ukraine's interim government plug its budget deficit and meet foreign loan repayments.
Deal expected

The IMF is also asking Ukraine to crack down on corruption and end central bank support for the Ukrainian currency.

On Tuesday, Ukraine's finance minister Olexander Shlapak said the country was seeking $15-20bn (£9-12bn) from the IMF.

The Financial Times has reported that a rescue package worth about $15bn is close to being agreed, and could be announced as early as Thursday.

An agreement with the IMF is necessary to unlock further financial support from the EU and US.

Financial help is urgently required as Ukraine has been forced to plunder its foreign currency reserves, and the economy is expected to contract by 3% this year, according to the country's finance ministry.

In the US, arguments in Congress over reforms to the IMF have held up plans to offer Ukraine $1bn in loan guarantees.

The EU says its financial support, potentially worth 1.6bn euros (£1.3bn) is contingent on the IMF deal being agreed.


Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26758788

Wonder if the Ukrainians who wanted to be closer to the EU had this in mind?
Last Edit: 28 Mar 2014 15:53 by Quality Street. Reason: put article in italics
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 28 Mar 2014 15:59 #408

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Same ole IMF playbook - the New financial Order - Out of Financial Chaos

"Never let a good crisis go to waste" Hey?
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 28 Mar 2014 16:13 #409

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Ukrainian Junta Concedses to IMF Looting Plan.

Ukraine’s Parliament at first rejected on Thursday an “anti-crisis” law proposed by the IMF. It later adopted the legislation when 246 of 321 MPs voted in favor.

The bill will impose austerity measures rivaling those currently decimating the living standards of the Greek people. The draft law kowtowing to the IMF was proposed by the coup government of Arseniy Yatsenyuk, a former central banker who runs a foundation propped up by the U.S. State Department, the National Endowment for Democracy, NATO, Chatham House, Horizon Capital, Swedbank, and the German Marshall Fund.

www.infowars.com/ukrainian-junta-concedes-to-imf-looting-plan/
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 28 Mar 2014 16:15 #410

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Well that should also stem the steadily increasing number of Ukranian tourists to Greece. 2 birds, 1 stone!
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 28 Mar 2014 16:26 #411

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The IMF is also asking Ukraine to crack down on corruption and end central bank support for the Ukrainian currency.

IMF chuck stones in glass house.
Set the controls for the heart of the earth.
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 28 Mar 2014 18:34 #412

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Is it just me - or do others wonder how the fuck people, especially governments, fall for this IMF gameplan over and over again.

It's not even original - they follow the same plan time after time and still manage to get away with it....even after decades of use. I'm no rocket scientist and I'm not running a country, not even a very small banana republic and I get it.
Instead of TPTB using fluoride to dumb down the proles maybe they should use the same drugs our national governments are on - because, quite clearly, they are more effective, at dumbing down, our semi-lobotomized MP's and representatives.
Maybe a bean counter did a Cost/Benefit analysis...... :spliff:
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 28 Mar 2014 18:55 #413

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It aint that the govs are too dumb to see it, wisey....it's that they are in it up to their necks. They use their office for their own gain and the gain of their croney exploiter buddies.
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 28 Mar 2014 19:11 #414

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Wise Haven wrote:
It's not even original - they follow the same plan time after time and still manage to get away with it....even after decades of use. I'm no rocket scientist and I'm not running a country, not even a very small banana republic and I get it.
Okay, firstly most people don't know the IMF exist. The closest you might get from a lot of people is that they recorded the song 'Unbelievable':



Secondly, those that do pay attention generally get their view of the world from the BBC. That sounds like a generalisation, but I don't think that it is. The BBC is by far the most trusted news source in Britain, and most people don't read anything of substance ever, but they will watch TV.

Not that the commercial channels are much better if at all, but the BBC constantly legitimises the role of the IMF. In my opinion, they absolutely relentlessly completely misrepresent virtually every issue. So if you look at the BBC coverage of the IMF, the overwhelming majority implies that they're trying to help out in a difficult situation, or act as some sort of watchdog:

www.google.co.uk/#q=site:www.bbc.co.uk+imf&safe=off

Occasionally, you get something like this:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26772354

Which appears to be a critique, but actually completely reinforces the existing system by simply failing to challenge the notion that the IMF has a legitimate role and purpose, while also suggesting that it should just take a slightly different approach:
So is this an occasion, where the West and its official financial institutions, could and should be a little more conspicuously generous - such that they (we?) should offer the Ukrainians more carrot, especially since there is little appetite to brandish an intimidating stick against the Russians?

So the implication is that the IMF could perhaps do something slightly differently, but it should definitely be doing something, and as for questioning its existence and modus operandi...well, I don’t think you’re going to get that from Robert Peston somehow!

And people get battered over the head with a certain perspective, with a certain view of the world, with certain social, political and cultural assumptions – in my opinion it begins at a very young age – and eventually they come to see it as natural. And the critical thing is...because they’ve seen some form of debate happening in the media, on the BBC, they think that they have a free press, a critical media. I’ve spoken to people about media propaganda and I’ve seen them very aggressively defending the media...which is elitist and does nothing for them whatsoever!

This is merely the way that they’ve been taught to respond. The achievement of getting millions of working people, blokes on building sites, to buy The Sun every day because it’s got tits in it and it’s what blokes do, when it not only doesn’t represent their interests, it is actively and explicitly hostile to them(!) is an incredible achievement. If anyone doubts that social engineering exists, that should be a good example to make clear that it certainly does exist.

So it all really ultimately feeds into something that Chomsky has spoken and written about:

www.goodreads.com/quotes/15454-the-smart...sive-and-obedient-is
The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum.

Which is exactly what happens in reality. This is why the political process is always presented as adversarial and it is ubiquitously stated that politicians are at one another’s throats. Because it gives the public the idea that there has been a real debate, that all possible views have been put forward and discussed, and that the people involved feel very strongly and are very principled in their position. At the very least, they are loyal to their party which is presumed to stand for something. I mean, the Labour party and the Tories have been arguing and disagreeing constantly about absolutely everything all my life...they must stand for completely different things, right?

This is how people are steadily, consciously and systematically manipulated into a completely false view regarding virtually every issue. It’s a triumph and the only positive indicator about society that so many people are now seeing through these issues such as fracking. This would not have happened ten years ago, and would have been laughable twenty years ago.

But you view a report on the IMF objectively based on what you know about them, whereas most people – even if they understand anything about the issue in the first place, which they probably don’t – will simply summon up all of their automatic, programmed responses which have been put in their head by decades of news reports and from an upbringing in which they were ultimately taught not to question authority, authoritarianism and the notion that other people make decisions that decide their lot in life, and this should be accepted without dissent.

Another aspect to it is that most people still believe that governments run the society not financial institutions and corporations, but that’s another matter entirely...
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Last Edit: 28 Mar 2014 19:14 by wake_up_bomb.
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 28 Mar 2014 19:18 #415

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dubmeup wrote:
It aint that the govs are too dumb to see it, wisey....it's that they are in it up to their necks. They use their office for their own gain and the gain of their croney exploiter buddies.

You're right Dubs - But I believe most, not all, politicians are naively sucked into the system and find it "very comfortable indeed" and ideals go out the window in very short time.
Obviously there is a cabal that controls who, from their own, will go into politics and be puppets from day one.
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 29 Mar 2014 12:25 #416

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Putin calls Obama to discuss a diplomatic resolution to the Ukranian situation.

Obama says
“President Obama underscored to President Putin that the United States continues to support a diplomatic path in close consultation with the government of Ukraine and in support of the Ukrainian people with the aim of de-escalation of the crisis,” the White House said in a statement. “President Obama made clear that this remains possible only if Russia pulls back its troops and does not take any steps to further violate Ukraine’s territorial integrity and sovereignty.”

Except that Russia had always had troops in Crimea in the same way that the US has had bases all around the World. So basically the WH is saying "No talks until you retreat from a position held since 1945"

www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-...0328,0,1647611.story

Meanwhile hundreds of Academi (Blackwater) troops are in pursuit of pro-Russian protesters in East Ukraine - and as I pointed out, Academi is run by ex government and ex-US military neo cons.
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 29 Mar 2014 12:34 #417

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What's the difference between this and the Russians going into Chechnya? I don't recall 'The West' making quite so much noise then, strange that!
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 29 Mar 2014 14:13 #418

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DONETSK, Ukraine — Pro-Russia protesters rallied for a second day in Lenin Square here on Sunday, demanding a referendum on joining the Russian Federation and blasting Western influence on the region.
A week earlier, Ukraine's southern Crimea region voted to secede and to join Russia, igniting minor clashes between the two countries and Western sanctions against Moscow.
Thousands in the square waved Russian and regional flags. They demanded that ousted pro-Russia President Viktor Yanukovych be returned to office, denounced the country's interim leaders as Nazis, and accused the West and the European Union of causing unrest.
“U.S. and EU out of the Ukraine,” read one sign. “They sponsor terrorism.”
“Why did the U.S. and the EU pay for the Maidan?” asked protester Vasili Michailak, referring to the uprising in Kiev's central square that prompted Yanukovych to flee to Russia.
“We don't want war, and we don't want fascists here,” said Michailak, 57. “The occupation taking place in Ukraine was paid for by the U.S. The people of eastern Ukraine don't want to be part of NATO.”

triblive.com/news/adminpage/5819022-74/ukraine-russia-russian

Pittsburgh seems to have better coveredge than the BBC
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 29 Mar 2014 16:08 #419

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Moscow has no intention of sending troops into Ukraine, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has said.
His comments came after the US and Russian presidents discussed a possible diplomatic solution to the crisis.
The US-backed plan calls for Russia to halt to its military build-up on the border with Ukraine and withdraw its troops to base in Crimea.

BBC story reports.

FYI the Russian Black Sea Fleet have been there for 200 years.

https://en.wikipedia...Black_Sea_Fleet
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Last Edit: 29 Mar 2014 16:09 by mikey mikey.
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 29 Mar 2014 16:30 #420

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A few questions I put to a neocon elsewhere:

Did you think Putin was going to sit by, while a right wing fascist government was installed, with US help, on Russia's border?

Did you think he would give up Russia's only warm water port (i.e. Sevaspol in Crimea) and have the Russian Navy checkmated by the US and its access to the Mediterranean effectively blocked? Really? With the situation in Syria and Iran as it is?

Did you know that Crimea was Russian before it was Ukrainian and that it was Kruschev (a Ukrainian ) who made it part of the Ukraine?

Why did the Crimean vote to join Russia by over 95% while, according to international observers, 135 international observers have arrived from 23 countries, say there was no coercion?
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