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TOPIC: Transhumanism

Re: Transhumanism 18 Dec 2012 22:19 #121

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There are no questions about upgrades or cost of upgrades because the upgrades don't exist, there's not even a basic transhumanist prototype to upgrade yet so whatever, yeah great.
The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
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Re: Transhumanism 18 Dec 2012 22:26 #122

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That's not in question though is it. I don't think anyone here has said the tech is available in cohesive form today. It's very much still in RnD. However there is an awful lot of time, money and effort being thrown at it as you'll see if you take the time to look.
You'll also quickly see what they want to do with it. And I don't think You and I or our kids factor into it.
Last Edit: 18 Dec 2012 22:26 by dubs.
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Re: Transhumanism 18 Dec 2012 22:38 #123

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Who is "they"?
Why would I give a fuck what "they" want to do with Technology that "they" don't own and have no legal right to use?
The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
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Re: Transhumanism 18 Dec 2012 22:55 #124

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You don't know anything at all about the transhumanists do you gue. Go on, admit it :)

Are you a fan of "legal" rights btw? ;)
Last Edit: 18 Dec 2012 22:56 by dubs.
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Re: Transhumanism 18 Dec 2012 23:06 #125

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No I don't.

Yeah I cheer them like a fan, I go "YEEEEAH Legal Rights". and write fan mail to them and stuff, quite dedicated saw them live a few years back and followed them on the road.
The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
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Re: Transhumanism 18 Dec 2012 23:11 #126

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Guevarista wrote:
No I don't.
Thanks for the honesty :thumbup:
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Re: Transhumanism 18 Dec 2012 23:23 #127

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Hopefully it rubs off on you dubs.
The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
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Re: Transhumanism 18 Dec 2012 23:26 #128

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Funny guy aint ya :thumbup:

Sorry, I meant twat. How's that fer honesty :)
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Re: Transhumanism 19 Dec 2012 08:47 #129

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Guevarista wrote:
dubmeup wrote:
It's on the screen at 13 seconds in gue.
I think it fair to suggest people like this chap who is a major transhumanist activist are a bit more clued up than you or I on the subject. Quite prepared to accept that he and they may be exhibiting optimism though.
Didn't you watch to 46seconds where he says no upload method currently exists?

4g, lol :D
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Re: Transhumanism 19 Dec 2012 10:55 #130

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4g Andy? Not even the Rothschilds have enough wedge to be able to upload anything beyond a memory of a picture of a cat through 4g :D
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Re: Transhumanism 22 Dec 2012 21:46 #131

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Transhumanism, broadly speaking, is a futurist movement with a set of beliefs with a common theme of anticipating an evolutionary plateau beyond the current Homo sapiens. The general expectation is that in the near future greater manipulation of human nature will be possible because of the adoption of techniques apparent on the technological frontier: machine intelligence greater than that of contemporary humans, direct mind-computer interface, genetic engineering and nanotechnology. Transhumanists tend to believe that respect for human agency, even when practiced by humans in their current form, is valuable.

While frequently dismissed as mere speculation at best by most rationalists (especially in light of the many failures of artificial intelligence), transhumanism is a strongly-held belief among many computer geeks, notably such alpha geeks as synthesizer and accessible computing guru Ray Kurzweil (a believer in the "technological singularity", where technology evolves beyond humanity's current capacity to understand or anticipate it) and Sun Microsystems founder and Unix demigod Bill Joy (who believes the inevitable result of AI research is the obsolescence of humanity).

Scientific criticisms

Sadly, a lot of the underpinnings of transhumanism are based on a sort of blind-men-at-the-elephant thinking—people assuming that because it can be imagined, it must be possible. Transhumanism is particularly associated with figures in computer science, which is a field that is in some ways more math and art than a true experimental science; as a result, a great many transhumanists tend to conflate technological advancement with scientific advancement; though these two things are intimately related, they are separate things. In fact, though transhumanists strenuously deny it, a great number of their arguments are strongly faith-based —- they assume because there are no known barriers to their pet development, that it's inevitably going to happen. Seldom is the issue of unknowns—known or otherwise—factored into the predictions.

Singularity

The example of the singularity is instructive; for a great many people, at least part of the singularity hinges on being able to create a true artificial intelligence. While it's reasonable to contend that the complexity inherent in the human brain is within our technological reach, singularitarians tend to assume that having the capacity to emulate human intelligence means having the ability to. However, singularitarians hit the wall when confronted with the realities of brain development research—though a true AI may in fact be possible, there simply is not enough known about the brain to understand its functions to the degree necessary to create a workable emulation, meaning a prediction of such a creation is meaningless at best, dishonest at worst.

"Whole brain emulation" (WBE) is a term used by transhumanists to refer to, quite obviously, the emulation of a brain on a computer. While this is no doubt a possibility, it encounters two problems that keep it from being a certainty anytime in the near future. The first is a philosophical objection: For WBE to work, "strong AI" (i.e. AI equivalent to or greater than human intelligence) must be true. A number of philosophical objections have been raised against strong AI, generally contending either that the mind or consciousness is not computable or that a simulation of consciousness is not equivalent to true consciousness. There is still controversy over strong AI in the field of philosophy of mind.[5] A second possible objection is technological: WBE may be possible, but the technology to fully simulate a human brain (in the sense meant by transhumanists, at least) is a long way away. Currently, no computer (or network of computers) is powerful enough to simulate a human brain. Henry Markram, head of the Blue Brain Project, estimates that simulating a brain would require 500 petabytes of data for storage and that the power required to run the simulation would be about $3 billion. (However, he optimistically predicts this will be possible in ten years.)[6] In addition to technological limitations in computing, there are also the limits of neuroscience. Neuroscience currently relies on technology that can only scan the brain at the level of gross anatomy (e.g., fMRI, PET). Forms of single neuron imaging (SNI) have been developed recently, but they can only be used on animal subjects (usually rats) because they destroy neural tissue.

Dreams of immortality: cryonics and mind uploading

Yet another transhumanist goal is mind uploading, which is one way they claim we will be able to achieve immortality. Aside from the problems with WBE listed above, mind uploading suffers a philosophical problem, namely the "swamp man problem." That is, will the "uploaded" mind be "you" or simply a copy or facsimile of your mind. Cryonics is another favorite of transhumanists. In principle, cryonics is not impossible, but the current form of it is based largely on rank speculation and costs a load of dough.
link

There you go Dubs, you don't really differ too much from a transhumanist, most your arguments in favour are based on faith.
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Re: Transhumanism 22 Dec 2012 21:52 #132

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Show me one post where I have made an "argument in favour" :roll:

Ohhhhh yer trolling again aint ya. silly me :emb:
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Re: Transhumanism 22 Dec 2012 21:59 #133

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If anyone is still in doubt as to how advanced and how serious the transhumanist plan is
I never said in "favour of transhumanism", you were making the argument this is a realistic and a "serious" plan, you were arguing with me when I dismissed Transhumanists and what they say, as it's all based on utopian ideas, not on reality, therefore were arguing in favour of taking them seriously.

Do you get my meaning?
Or if not what do you think we were arguing about in this thread?
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Re: Transhumanism 22 Dec 2012 22:10 #134

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Say what you mean clearly and it won't be misinterpreted will it :roll:

If you want to think that it's all pie in the sky that's entirely up to you of course. But as you've already admitted, you haven't got knowledge of the subject to go on so it would appear it's actually yourself that is coming from a place of faith.

I would humbly suggest that if you are at all interested, you do a bit of looking into it, get a bit more informed and then make your judgement. Or alternatively, if you aren't interested, perhaps have a look at your "addiction" and avoid clicking on threads such as this.
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Re: Transhumanism 22 Dec 2012 22:16 #135

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Dubs why do you insist on harbouring beliefs?
Do you believe Transhumanists are steering the development of technology?
The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
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Re: Transhumanism 22 Dec 2012 22:23 #136

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Harbouring beliefs? Evidence for that?

I consider that there is certainly a big enough paper trail to indicate that some (not all) transhumanists are heavily investing in the R+D of technology that they perceive as conducive to their cause.

That is not the same as believing they are steering the development of technology.
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Re: Transhumanism 23 Dec 2012 01:07 #137

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Guevarista wrote:
Dubs why do you insist on harbouring beliefs?
Do you believe Transhumanists are steering the development of technology?

Profit steers just about all technological development today.
That said, I've no doubt many aspects of transhumanism could be considered profitable. Life extension for example...oddly enough that would only be from the viewpoint of selling tech for that purpose and for the overall profit agenda to be at ease with that, they would have to be selling that tech only to the upper class for serious wonga, otherwise the standard 'deathcare' system would be losing money as fewer people would require its services.
(Ya...more sick people = more money)
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Re: Transhumanism 23 Dec 2012 01:16 #138

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I'm inclined to think that with the hardcore transhumanists, profit may not actually be the prime motive. It seems likely that fear of dying, fear of frailty and/or disease and other similar fears are a big factor also. Perhaps, just perhaps they are motivated toward accruing profit and capital as a means to an end. That end being to make large investment in the tech :dunno:
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Re: Transhumanism 23 Dec 2012 01:23 #139

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dubmeup wrote:
I'm inclined to think that with the hardcore transhumanists, profit may not actually be the prime motive. It seems likely that fear of dying, fear of frailty and/or disease and other similar fears are a big factor also. Perhaps, just perhaps they are motivated toward accruing profit and capital as a means to an end. That end being to make large investment in the tech :dunno:

Longer life = more time to acquire even more wealth :)

I personally see this as something for the people at the top alone initially as its inevitably going to be expensive at first.
Its going to lead to a whole new branch of the human race and its pioneers are going to be raving loony psychos.
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Re: Transhumanism 23 Dec 2012 01:30 #140

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The game one potato two potatoes springs to mind. Get the profit. Invest in tech. Get the profit. Invest in tech. Get the......
:D
I'll again make a clarification that I perceive different 'levels' of transhumanists. Certainly at some levels there is an apparently genuine desire to better the lot of humanity as a whole but sitting on a 'high' level are a bunch who have basically moved on from eugenicist ideas of superiority and hope to take that to a new level. To my mind, they are already "raving loony psychos". Should they ever achieve their goals we is gonna have to invent a new term for em :D
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