John_UK22 wrote:
Many avoided this so called slavery by not sticking their snouts in the cheap loans trough and maintaining financial independence by using the remaining regulated financial system.

To call what has happened slavery is an insult to those truly enslaved.

Just looking at the history of nineteenth and early twentieth century it is clear that, although the working class were paid, they were enslaved.

This is true of the sweatshops in Asia today.

The UK will come to resemble the situations above in the UK if current trends are not stopped.

John_UK22 wrote:
Oh really? Tell me then John in your infinite wisdom how it is even remotely possible to maintain our current standard of living without any form of goods or service exchange and with no type of universally accepted payment.

I'm all ears.

SilvaRizla wrote:
Do us all a favour and shut the fuck up, lol.

andyh wrote:

Awwww, poor little andy can't answer the question?

SilvaRizla wrote:
I'm still waiting for mine from right back at the start of the thread then 4 other ones after it.

John could also ask you for example how you expect to maintain 'our' (wtf does that mean?) standard of living WITH the current system.

Stupid question innit chip boy.

To say that goods and services cant be exchanged to maintain standard of living without payment is a logical fallacy.

I'll toss a couple of words out there that prove the fallaciousness.

Gift

Favour

dubmeup wrote:
In kind

andyh wrote:
What you are attempting to do, is falsely assert that I have faith in our current economic system (something which I have never claimed), much as you have with others, and some other such false bullshit about microchips that you claim I believe (even though I do not, and have never advocated such a thing). You are doing all of this to attempt to distract away from the fact that you believe it somehow possible to force people to work for you without any form of payment in return. You know now, that you're living in cloud cookoo land regarding such a fairytale and as such are refusing to answer 4 very basic questions which argue a point put to you that you ignored.

dubmeup wrote:
A favour is often the first step in an exchange in service. If you don't return favours, you won't get far.

SilvaRizla wrote:
Is that why halfords fit bulbs for £10 , so you don't have to go to one of dubs key in the bowl party , to make up the numbers ?

SilvaRizla wrote:
So far the 'solution' I've heard off the tory boys here is put your money in a building society.
I have news for you, it won't save the world. Nor will it stop people suffering.
Most of us don't have savings, we have to spend it all as we're broke and paid shit wages.
Til you can come up with a proper solution then quit whining.

andyh wrote:
Some questions for you:

1) Where did I say that?
2) Considering I never offered a solution, and all I did was point out the laughable notion of 'nobody lift a finger'-land, what are you on about?
3) Your reply does not address any of the points made by the post you quoted, why not?
4) What are my beliefs on the shadow banking market?

SilvaRizla wrote:
You don't have any beliefs or cures about the general state of the economic system from what I've seen.
You 'seem' to agree with anarcho-syndicalism from what I've seen after being shown what its about.
You carry on posting shit in a thread after seemingly coming to a conclusion earlier.
Conclusion = troll. I bundle barnfish in with it tbh. I don't see what you're trying to achieve or get at tbh.

andyh wrote:
So that wasn't something I said then? Excellent
So you don't know my beliefs but have been asserting them? OK
You haven't shown me anything I wasn't already aware of.
The only conclusion I have come to, is that its near impossible to get a straight answer out of you, and if you don't like a question you won't answer it and will attempt to divert attention elsewhere and call anyone who won't play your little diversionary games.

What I'm trying to get, is for you to acknowledge that no matter what the system, people need to work together offering and exchanging their services on a fair basis, despite first believing that people will offer their time and skills for nothing in return. I'm also trying to get you to acknowledge that no matter what the system, history has taught us that we do indeed need a universally accepted symbol to represent numerous goods or services.

What I believe is needed is this:

A publicly owned banking system that operates on a vote-in and vote-out members of the board basis where the board as a whole has to make a decision on what will be good for the country as a whole. I believe this will go a great way to drastically reduce potential corruption at the top level which will in turn solve problems created by the fractional-reserve method. Unfortunatley, without a fractional-reserve system the economy will still stagnate as greedy individuals and large businesses begin to hoard. Loans should of course continue to exist. Of course physical currency is to be printed by the new system and no other.

Unfortunatley, to maintain fiscal stability any injection of new currency has to be tied to base-rate at bare minimum.

Old money should be destroyed when its fucking supposed to be.

Somehow, there needs to be a way in which we can balance the amount of money coming in to the UK economy with the amount of money going out of it.

EDIT: There is to be absolutley NO shadow banking market. Monetary institutions need to be government licensed and not for profit.

Both anarcho-syndicalism and TVP is an example of people working together to achieve something.
I don't get why you need me to admit this after I've already outlined it several times? Do you need me to type it all out again?
Where is work not done in Mondragon? Is the thread title not accurate? Yes. Is it intentional and you obviously didn't get it or just want to troll that for the sakes of it? Yes.
It just seems like a massive spamfest for the sakes of it tbh.

As for talking about destroying money and balancing amounts in vs out what you're referring to is having a static amount in circulation by the looks. Thats a positive contribution to the thread as it seems to infer not having new money added via loans constantly thereby reducing unit value.
I would suggest that if you want something like that to happen then you use gold/silver or something similar that cannot be dicked with.
Simples.

andyh wrote:
You yourself were asked this question, do you know why?

The positive contribution I have made, I would say is more to do with showing that the principal of the video of this thread (We don't need to work, in order to stop suffering we have to stop working, all current ideologies are conservative because they believe in work, support the right to be lazy,) is laughable. There is no way it is a viable alternative to our current system and it is dangerous to propose that it is.

I'm suggesting a static-ish system. One that expands and contracts by relativley small amounts instead of exploding or imploding as is now the case.

I don't really think it matters what its backed by, certain people will hoard whatever is deemed valuable at the time. We need to prevent hoarding by means of taxation and redistribute this wealth to the ground up, rather than top down as happens now.

SilvaRizla wrote:
But in an rbe everyone is essentially doing favours for everyone. Perhaps in the form of work.
But no cash need exist or change hands. It really is simple once you 'get it'.
Mindblowingly hard and complicated when you don't.

SilvaRizla wrote:
The video does not intend that people don't work, rather it was about positive work which is a completely different thing.
At the moment our energies are wasted.
Its a bit like the regulation of the monetary system and taxation that people expect to work.
It won't.

Systems simplification is the only thing that has ever worked and de-regulation rather than regulation.
Laws etc are fine on paper, some people just don't give a shit and they never will, so you simplify and remove the possibility of dicking with it in the first place and stick with it...but thats all politicians can ever do, its their reason d'etre isn't it? Doesn't matter if they are liberal or conservative the aim is to dick with shit, a death spiral of fucking with things in a futile effort to achieve perfection.

Whats worse is you have half the global GDP offshore and thats going to require global intervention by people who run the system to police themselves. I would suggest...that's not going to happen lol
Gold/silver won't happen for the same reason, nor will Mondragon because it'll take too long and too much effort and money.

Call me cynical (which I'll freely admit I am) but a disaster is probably the best thing that can happen because only then will something actually get done about it.