SilvaRizla wrote:
Post ignored.

andyh wrote:
So replace money with a system of tokens with a nominated value that people are paid in any can buy goods and services with. What about credit and debt, how would you deal with that?

I would be concerned that those who run this mega corp would become very wealthy and the expense of the people. I envisage a situation just as Orwell predicted in Animal Farm and the Who wrote as lyrics, meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

SilvaRizla wrote:
Admission that we do not need the service of others.

scaltura wrote:
If ifs and ands were pots and pans, there would be no work for tinker's hands.

Barnfish wrote: Feb 16th 2013


www.icij.org/offshore/secret-files-expos...shores-global-impact
April 3, 2013, 6:00 pm

The icij btw is the most reliable journalistic source...period.

Barnfish wrote:
Aye , you wire into life the way you are

scaltura wrote:
Well, yeah that probably is his thinking, but we know that system doesn't work, its how the monetary system started. Its the whole reason money is needed.

SilvaRizla wrote:
Then you have just left the universally agreed payment system.

Better get a gun and run because you can now no longer pay for goods/services unless you get out to the third world somewhere..oh I forgot...the plane company doesn't accept anything except the chips..in fact..they're now locking up anyone who arrives at ports who doesn't have chips...oh man...shit situation but..c'est la vie innit.

andyh wrote:
wtf andy? not cool - not cool at all - back to reading the thread - shall comment on the content once I have read it all

SilvaRizla wrote:
Well I can't answer for Andyh if that is his view , I did say that "I think" so don't quote me , as it may not be his thought .

cheers

andyh wrote:
Fuck me, you broke an idiot proof post. That takes some doing

It matters not I suppose, because you've already admitted you were wrong. You just won't admit the fact to yourself I might read the thread again just for a laugh.

Barnfish wrote:
Same single share, same pay.

thoreau wrote:

It'll take you some time to see it but keep looking lol.

SilvaRizla wrote:
Well you have insisted on this 'universally accepted payment system' and it is coming whether you like it or not.
I'm assuming ofc at that point you'll suddenly no longer like it, what choice you will have at that stage is going to be suicide or comply basically and all I can say is perhaps you should have been paying more attention for donkeys years.

andyh wrote:
You realise you're talking about something nobody else is right?

andyh wrote:
Just answer the questions please. So far what you have argued to replace money and work looks a lot like money and work.

The only way we will ever have a reality without 'work' is if the universe suffers heat death and all the possible energy 'exchanges' are done.

But tiz ok

The universe isn't an isolated system so the second law doesn't apply. Any where. Any when.

So we'd best get used to work. Literally everything, is work.

However.
We could easily live in a reality free of debt currency, insane consumerism. planned obsolescence, wealth inequality, industrial pollution and servitude. If we as a species wanted to, it could happen today. Millions of jobs would disappear overnight. Advertising and finance being just two sectors that would go, puff.

The arguments against that potential state usually involve folk saying stuff like, who'd go down the sewers if they weren't getting any remuneration?
Well. I for one would, right here and right now.
You have to bear in mind though that such a civilization would completely change the way we educate/inform each other. Such a society wouldn't be fostering silly ideas like competition, survival of the fittest, keep up with the Jone's etc etc. Such a society would raise it's yoot in a very different paradigm. That paradigm would quite likely not involve sewers. It wouldn't be wasteful and would be as low impact as possible. All those advertising execs could spend their time doing summat like, um, working on ingenious ways to harness the energy of human waste? Artificial constraints, imposed by financial limitations, would be gone. New technologies would appear daily. Who knows, we may even get to the stage of extracting energy from the vacuum itself? We therefore may be able to crack warp technology?


One thing is certain though. If we carry on at this rate, the human race is guaranteed to never even leave the Solar System.

SilvaRizla wrote:
You haven't answered a dozen of mine, so why should I bother?
More to the point if you can't even acknowledge the end result of letting things lie with the current system in a few years time then the incentive to reply is even more pointless

Each and every post from yourself and barnfish has been about trying to score points over the word 'work' which as dubs as pointed out above is pointless as work is always done, even to breathe.
'Work done' is a measurement in physics but you didn't define your parameters of argument initially, whereas I have been very clear about mine, specifically work intended for pleasurable self fulfilment with direction in that work. There is no direction in working for consumerism.

If you want to continue partaking in the system you are most welcome to do so, I have merely pointled out the end result, if you don't like it then you had better swallow some silly childish misgivings you have and do something about it, I've given you some perfectly sensible opinions about how to do so and it is all quite logical. What I have outlined is a transitionary phase towards an improvement on what we have and I've said I don't think its perfect or ideal or utopian or whatever, however you guys have done nothing but whine, attack it at every opportunity and mock.

Who will be mocking who when you get a chip in your arm?

And its not 100 years off, if you're thinking that think again. We already have approx 97% digital, we're almost already there.
We have almost produced quantum computing, we have already interfaced circuitry with the human brain and we have people so broken and depressed now they can't even riot when disabled people get killed by atos.

jhado wrote:
Indeed the confusion, or perhaps deliberate conflation on the part of some, is that work (in the "job" sense of being part of a production/consumer system that exploits the labour of the many for the luxury and lordship of the few) has a monopoly on endeavour, study and indeed labour of any kind.

It's career or crap heap, servitude or idleness. salary or slavery.

The programming and propaganda of the "work ethic" .

Odd considering how many works of art, discoveries and inventions were born out of "hobbies".

The belief that without the masters whip, the human race would be just idle, is just a fairy tale dreamt up by tyrants and their would-be whipping crew

Perhaps it is the threat of having whips taken away that causes the furious objection to a resource based economy.

andyh wrote:
Silva does not answer your questions. Your questions answer to him.