SilvaRizla wrote:
Greed doesn't need a facilitator. So long as there is more to take (of anything) certain people will take more than their fair share. We live in a society of abundance, but the TVP will have the same problems we do now. People WILL monopolise if they can gain from it. I am far from set in my ways. I assess everything of merit. Bring me something of merit and see what happens. You clearly haven't understand my proposal, I don't think that money will magically solve anything. Money is merely a tool. Doesn't build much on its own.
Even if greed didn't need a facilitator? (of course it does) money still facilitates greed. But in something like the ideas of TVP for example greed would no longer be necessary. Why would people fight over resources if everybody was educated to the fact that the world works by sharing everything available and have it managed by technology to keep a balance for both nature and humans as exact as it possibly could be?
Theft of resources could also be viewed as a crime..... like it is now, just that there's an advanced system in place to make sure it favours the criminals.
There's a lot of merit in TVP. There's a lot of merit in just using technology to fulfil the most basic human needs and using its ability to reduce wasteful tasks & enable more leisure time and minimising a reliance on money. There's a lot of merit in the Mondragon idea. There's a lot of merit in anarchist theories. The goal of any of these should be to remove the need for money at all. Why have it.... if we could live without it?
It's been mentioned that many times now 'money is just a tool' 'money is just a means of exchange' but it's also been shown to be so much more & that gets shrugged.
Err no. I've suggested the changes I think need to be made. I've suggested the avenues that need to be tried. Resources can't be purchased? So you DO advocate rationing? If not, what if myself and a few other turn up at the next <insert product> delivery. We take all of it for ourselves. What then? I don't love the idea of money so much. Maybe I do, coz its bloody sensible and very needed. I don't think everything else would be worse. Show me something of merit.
You've suggested changes to the money system but that doesn't take into account any of the further underlying problems such as how it ultimately puts power into the wrong hands and is entirely corruptible (as you've at least admitted), and has been proven by every monetary idealism, and perpetuates inequality. Additionally, it's all a bit too governmenty for me.
How would you intend to buy something if there is no money? It keeps getting you that one!
Is sharing rationing now? Isn't money a form of rationing? Does it work well for most people?
You did mention the elites needs. You said everyone's needs. The elite's are raised comfortably and it hasn't stopped them. Perhaps they are ill people. Do you think no emotionally ill people will be born in the future and do the exact same thing? Some people want to control other people. That will never change. So long as that never changes, those same people will dominate resources.
A moneyless world isn't unfathomable to me, I fathom it perfectly well as you can see by my understanding of what effects such a thing will have. It is you and a couple of others in this thread who are having some trouble "fathoming".
I think in a more balanced and equal society people will be less emotionally affected;
no work - less stress - no money worries - less stress - more leisure time - less stress.
There are indeed control freaks but which is more powerful;
a) a control freak with loads of money
b) a control freak with no money
What makes you think the same people would take control of resources? If anything, it would be the hardest bastards, not some snivelling weasly cunt who's made a mint & stashed it away in the Caymans. But as I've pointed out people could vote to make theft of resources a crime.
You say you can get your head around the idea but you've constantly gone on in the thread about trading stuff & purchasing stuff so you've obviously not got it sussed at all. You've basically denied every idea in the thread & many facts in some crazed persuit of maintaining a monetary idea because you've come up with some theory.
Ultimately none if this matters because there isn't going to be any transition....at least not in the near future......
and believe it or not, money is going to make sure of it.
